Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA20882 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 May 2000 14:26:27 +0100 Message-ID: <00e401bfbaf0$640c2c60$03000004@r2z3h3> From: "Tyger" <void@internet-zahav.net.il> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB16B@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 04:26:59 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
of course. the fact that I am against the results of such propaganda does
not in any fashion preclude me from seeing its effects and efficiency.
there were many persons (or so history tells us) that were against the acts
of the Nazi Regime, that did not in any fashion change the fact that the PR
(or propaganda- I do think they are quite interchangeable) had its effects
upon them. be part of the group.. or else.
As I see it propaganda has got its negative reputation from the fact that
most involved researchers used the context in which propaganda was used to
show its effects. but taken as a method of meme propagation, its a method
and thats all. PR operates quite in the same manner though arguably in a
more subtle manner (or supposed to be more subtle). the difference may be
the level of consciousness involved, and the level of admittance of truth in
the equation.
Tyger.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Campbell" <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> The kind of cohesion that led to the concentration camps?
>
> I'd agree propaganda has become entirely tainted with notions of
negativity,
> but one of the interesting questions is whether pro-social propaganda is
> really what public relations is (I teach on an MSc in PR and we
constantly
> have these debates about the relationship between PR and propaganda).
>
> > ----------
> > From: Tyger
> > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:45 am
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> >
> > Propaganda can be seen as very usefull, not only to the propagandist but
> > to
> > the culture and society in which it operates. propaganda (without value
> > associated) I see as an attribute of the emergent property of groups.
its
> > main purpose (which is different then the intended purpose of the said
> > propagandist) is the cohesion it creates in a given culture. hence its
> > usefulness. memes are the discreet entities of propaganda, but its
> > understanding should be on the meta-system level.
> > thus propaganda works because it is a glue, cohesive force.
> > its use to the recipient: giving or creating the feeling (or illusionary
> > feeling) of being part of a/the group.
> >
> > Tyger
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
> > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> >
> >
> > > Chuck wrote:
> > > >Robin Faichney wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Is "propagandistic value" the same as, or different from,
> > "usefulness"?
> > > >>
> > > >The best person to ask that is your local politician. Far be it for
me
> > to
> > be so
> > > >pretentious as to know the answer.
> > >
> > > Propaganda is obviously of use to the propagandist, but surely your
> > > model says that a meme won't be picked up unless it is of use to the
> > > recipient -- in which case, what is propaganda?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robin Faichney
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed May 10 2000 - 14:26:56 BST