Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA16258 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 9 May 2000 18:59:22 +0100 Message-ID: <39180C51.8D7748A3@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 14:02:09 +0100 From: Chuck Palson <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener References: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJAEJPEMAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Richard Brodie wrote:
> Chuck wrote:
>
> <<Richard - I don't want to say it outright for pedagogical reasons, but
> what
> do you suppose tight little subcultures do to stay tight? :) Clue: why did
> nonsensical grammatical rules become the obsession of the emerging middle
> class in the 18th century?>>
>
> I'm guessing that your implication is that "staying tight" == "utility".
> Why? No one would argue that all memes have some EFFECT, even a tiny one.
> But is having an effect the same as being useful? Useful to who? What
> memetics says is that memes evolve to have effects that are useful TO THE
> MEME.
>
You guessed right, and we may be getting somewhere by your statement that
indeed, memes are useful. To who? I get the contradictory messages from
Blackmore that on the one hand she takes the analogy to genes quite seriously
sometimes, and on the other that it is "just" an analogy. It seems to me that
saying it is useful to the meme is taking it pretty seriously. If you mean
that literally, I have no idea what you mean - I can't even imagine that a
word in and of itself competes with other words for memory space. As far as I
know, brain scans show that the decision to use a word comes from an area
outside of memory and corresponds to a particular idea that has to be
communicated. In other words, it's the human being that makes the decision
that benefits. I still don't understand how the adoption of the metaphor of an
independent meme gets us anywhere.
>
> Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com
> http://www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
>
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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