Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA16181 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:04:13 GMT From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk> Organization: Reborn Technology To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: new line: what's the point? Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:41:01 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.21] Content-Type: text/plain References: <200003052229.RAA17073@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net> Message-Id: <00030617491901.00458@faichney> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
>>
>> But let's focus on the point at issue here. In DDI, Dennett says that memes
>> are semantically rather than syntactically encoded in the brain, because there
>> is no "brain language" (I think "brain programming language" might convey the
>> point more effectively) which is consistent across brains. The clear
>> implication is that semantic here does *not* necessarily imply subjective,
>> because the requirement can be covered by saying that the same meme in
>> different brains codes for the same behaviour, regardless of neural
>> instantiation. Do you disagree, and if so, why?
>>
>The fact that the neural instantiations differ across individuals is
>proof of their individuality, not the opposite.
I said nothing about individuality or its opposite. If you think that the
elimination of subjectivity from memetics has such implications, that's your
problem. Literally. You probably think it would mean free will going out
the window too. You need to get a more sophisticated concept of mechanism.
Your present view is quite outdated. Compatibilism is *in*! :-)
>As you yourself said,
>we are not talking intersubjectively identical coding here. Also,
>your assumption that the behavior is the same rather than similar
>cannot be substantiated, and in fact would seem to preclude the
>mutation necessary for memetic evolution,
It's not an assumption -- see below.
>and your claim that it is
>the "same" meme coded in different brains is clearly confused.
What I'm saying is that *where* the behaviour is the same, *then*, and to the
same extent, are we concerned with the same meme. In fact, similarity of
behaviour (which is obviously a matter of degree) is necessary but probably not
sufficient to determine similarity of meme. (And, of course, where we're
talking about items of information, similarity is identity.)
-- Robin Faichney===============================This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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