Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA10362 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:46:41 GMT Message-ID: <B6E47FBD3879D31192AD009027AC929C368810@NWTH-EXCHANGE> From: Bruce Jones <BruceJ@nwths.com> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: What are memes made of? Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:50:09 -0600 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin Faichney [SMTP:robin@faichney.demon.co.uk]
>
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >>
> >Without communication, there can be no memetics, for it is by
> >means of communication that memes replicate. What is
> >necessary for communication is necessary for memetics.
> >Memetic multiplication is effected by means of dissemination,
> >which is communication to multiple receivers.
>
> My point is this: given all the existing concepts, such as meaning, and
> the
> whole semiotic toolbag, what purpose does the meme concept serve? What
> place is
> there for a "selfish" replicator in a world of consciously communicating
> individual minds? I thought memetics was an alternative scenario.
> Otherwise,
> why bother with memes at all?
>
[BJ] Robin et. al.:
Good point !!!
I will throw in my $0.02 here to see if I am thinking straight about
memes myself.
We have all studied Grammar, and the use of words in sentence
structure. We have all studied the effectiveness of words as they are used
on an individual basis and in groupings of words. We all know it is much
more pleasant to say grilled catfish than to say the heat degenerated flesh
of a bottom dwelling, trash eating, aquatic animal. This all falls into the
realm of semantics.
We have all learned in government and civics class how ideas shape
and move governments to wage war, make peace, trade and change power
structures. We have all seen generations of people --at least in America --
defined by popular idioms ... 'neat', 'cooool', 'hip', etc.
To me memetics is the origin of thought as it defines a culture ...
family, group, community, regional, and national. A saying in one part of a
country is expressive of the culture of that region just as much as the
dialect, accent, or physical characteristics. Memetics ties it all together
to find out how divergent and sometimes antagonistic cultures develop the
mass mentality of the group represented. How does a philosophy, culture,
thought process develop?
Anthropologists study culture and its evolution ... to me memetics
is -- or should be -- the study of the way thought processes as defined by
language and the interaction of that language is co-evolutionary for any
specific culture.
Bruce Jones
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