Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA13619 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:38:16 GMT From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: meaning in memetics Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:37:09 -0800 Message-ID: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJEEFBEGAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000218124127.AAA11357@camail2.harvard.edu@[205.240.180.169]> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Well, I think you're very close to understanding memetics. It is absolutely
about feedback loops. Natural selection is about feedback loops. The
question is, what persistent information store can change due to feedback?
There are several candidates. One is the gene pool. The only way we know of
for the gene population to change is through natural selection. Another is
the meme pool. The set of beliefs, opinions, strategies and so on that are
prevalent in a culture can change in many ways from broadcast propaganda to
unwitting word-of-mouth spread to traditions passed on from mother to
daughter and modified to fit the new environment. You can also look at the
set of artifacts extant as a similar persistent information store, and more
abstractly the set of cultural organisms such as religions, governments,
companies.
I gave you several examples of phenomena not explained by genetics and you
keep talking about chain letters as an object of derision. Yet the success
or failure of a chain letter would seem to be an excellent example for study
in the sort of positive feedback you claim to be searching for. Not that I
am particularly interested in the study of chain letters personally, but can
you not see the usefulness of studying something not particularly important
in itself in order to understand general laws of nature?
Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
Of Wade T.Smith
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 4:36 AM
To: Memetics Discussion List
Subject: RE: meaning in memetics
Richard Brodie made this comment not too long ago --
>What mechanism to you propose to cause such an adaptation if not genetics
or
>memetics?
Yup, I ain't an evolutionist, and I hate jargon in general. I use the
dictionary, and expect plainspeakers to do the same.
The mechanism behind the behavioral adaptation that is culture is, as Joe
so well explained, the interaction between the genetic determinants and
the environment of society. It's a feedback loop.
Memetics, IMHO, should be getting at developing positive feedback, not
counting how many idiots forwarded a chain letter.
- Wade
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Feb 18 2000 - 15:38:20 GMT