Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA13125 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:57:41 GMT Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:56:34 GMT From: Soc Microlab 2 <A.Rousso@uea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: meaning in memetics, To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Message-ID: <ECS10002181234A@imap.uea.ac.uk> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >"what is preserved and transmitted in cultural evolution is *information* - in a media-neutral,
> >language-neutral sense. Thus the meme is primarily a *semantic* classification, not a *syntactic*
> >classification that might be directly observable in "brain language" or natural language."
>
> What he's saying here is that the meme is encoded, not straight physical
> information. The encoding can, and does, vary, but the encoded message remains
> the same. No?
>
Well, somewhat in disagreement with what Joe said, yes. It's a different yes. Yes the encoded message
remains the same, but it depends what you mean by encoded. If you mean it in the semantic sense then
yes I agree that the encoded message remains the same - hence memes are primarily a "semantic
classification". But it seems (in light of what you've said previously) that you're invoking the idea of
encoding as some syntactic, meaning-neutral phenomenon ("the encoding can vary, but the encoded
message remains the same), and this I think is wrong.
Look at this collection of lines and points:
... . . _
What's that? I mean, as physical information as you call it, what is it? It's not much is it? And if you put
this configuration on a mountain side, on paper or write it in stars in the sky that are actually millions of
light years apart, it's still not really anything. That is until you CODE it. When you say that this
configuration is code FOR something, it starts to have meaning - it start to have a semantic value that will
link the stars you saw in the sky, to the configuration on paper that previously were unrelated, and make
them mean something, where previously there were just two configurations that were the same
serendipitously. The meaning is what made the difference. When you know that this configuration is code
(morse code, actually) FOR somethihng, then it becomes interesting, it becomes something to foster an
academic subject about. Because all of a sudden we can discern which instances of the configuration
were just fluke (weren't MEANT) and which weren't. Dot-dot-dot-dash is morse code for V (apparently)
and V is for Victory - it might mean something else, say if you wanted to meet your friend at Victoria
station and you only had one letter with which to transmit the message.
So when you see the constellation in the sky, although it's the same configuration, you know it means
nothing (unless for example a soldier in a fellow division told you to look at x angle in the sky - a message
that his division had won a battle - or he told you to listen to the first four notes of Beethoven's fifth
[da-da-da-dah]).
To reiterate, the configuration in its pure sense, doesn't mean anything at all, and in light of that, there's
very little point in trying to construct a theory of human behaviour and society around it. When the
configuration is CODE FOR something, when it has meaning (just like the stars in the sky when the
soldier TOLD another soldier that they MEANT something), it becomes interesting, it becomes something
that we might want to talk about when explaining human behaviour.
cheers, alex Rousso.
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