Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA11033 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:21:40 GMT From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: meaning in memetics Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:20:13 -0800 Message-ID: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJIEDHEGAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20000217171100.AAA13784@camail2.harvard.edu@[128.103.125.215]> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Actually I disagree 180 degrees with this traditional sociobiological view
of cultural evolution. I think the exciting and scary thing about memetics
is that behaviors and the memes that drive them are NOT genetic adaptations
but rather meme-serving or mind-virus-serving adaptations. For the model to
predict that behaviors in humans are largely genetic adaptations, you would
have to assume that the genes are selected at a faster rate than the memes,
while the evidence suggests that nothing could be farther from the truth.
Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.memecentral.com/rbrodie.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
Of Wade T.Smith
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:05 AM
To: memetics list
Subject: RE: meaning in memetics
On 02/17/00 11:05, Richard Brodie said this-
>My view is that culture evolves in
>very complex ways and that there are interesting foci of replication
>including memes (mental information, beliefs, attitudes, strategies) and
>mind viruses (cultural organisms comprised of memes, artifacts, and
people).
And it is not without merit to include genetics in this list, indeed, it
should be leading all the rest.
Beings without any culture may replicate and evolve- and may even adapt
behaviors relevant to their environment (as do birds and spiders and
octopi, et alia, et omnia) that, upon perception, could be evaluated as
_progressing_ and _changing_ over time, but, really, what is changing is
not the 'trick' of the birdsong (which is established in genetics), but
the auditorium in which the bird sings. That the bird, and we, have an
auditorium which includes the songs of others, is an inescapable and not
dismissable fact.
The relevance of environment cannot be overlooked- it shares with
genetics, and the 'tricks' of successful evolutionary strategies, to
develop culture, to develop the behavioral adaptations that we _call_
'culture'.
That there are songs that will never be sung, or that wait to be heard,
is nature in its constancy.
- Wade
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 17 2000 - 17:21:42 GMT