From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: The information theoretic view Was: JOM
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:37:36 -0400
In-Reply-To: <000601bef70f$a0d471c0$a897fea9@applink.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of John C. 'Buck' Field
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 3:57 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: The information theoretic view Was: JOM
>
>
> Jake,
>
> I agree attempts to expand the meme definition to phenomena like
> infectious behavior
> are misguided. This notion is so strange, in fact, that I did
> not even understand
> Richard's pre-emptive defense against such errors. (That's what
> I get for jumping
> into deep discussions without all the history.)
>
> I think this idea's main problem is expanding the scope of meme
> to an unfalsifiable
> definition. This proposal leads to the concept that anything
> could be a meme
Not a meme in and of itself necessarily, but memetic noe the less. What is a
meme? Content, then?
>if it
> possibly contributes to replication...a component *leading to* a
> basic unit of mental
> replication including technological surroundings, genetics, the
> weather, etc. Clearly
> an unenlightening approach.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not
> what ships are for. Carpe Diem!
> +++++++++++++++
> Field Operative Services:
> Database and Web Solutions
> www.fieldoperative.com
> --------------------------------------------
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> >Of MemeLab@aol.com
> >Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 5:04 PM
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: The information theoretic view Was: JOM
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 9/3/99 2:59:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >info@fieldoperative.com writes:
> >
> >> It never occurred to me that the complex environmental conditions and
> >behavioral processes relating to meme propagation would called memes
> >themselves. This is certainly incorrect, but several errors
> defending this
> >point have really allowed in a trickle (flood?) of vitriol.<
> >
> >It seems that there has been a tendency lately to talk about aspects or
> >manifestations of memes as "memes" themselves. I think that
> proves to be a
> >mistake and is the cause of considerable confusion. The meme itself is a
> >*complete replicator* capable of filling the role of replicator in the
> >evolutionary algorithm. This would necessarily INCLUDE the meme's
> >manifestation within our cognitive faculties, though it would also
> >necessarily include some other manifestations as well --
> behavior alone at a
> >minimum -- though beyond that the details can vary greatly.
> >
> >Robin wants to turn meme's into "information" regardless of
> where it may be
> >found. This might have some useful applications, but doesn't necessarily
> >take into account that an embodied human mind must be included
> somewhere in
> >the structure of a meme. Otherwise we are talking about something other
> >human culture -- which I assume is the primary concern of memetics.
> >
> >-Jake
> >
> >===============================================================
> >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> >see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit