From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Re(2): Paper on chimp culture
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:46:55 -0400
In-Reply-To: <B0003941832@hamextw01.htcomp.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Mark M. Mills
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 1:39 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Re(2): Paper on chimp culture
>
>
> At 06:59 AM 6/29/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Mark wrote:
>
> ><<Note that bonobos are smarter than common chimps. Their
> culture is female
> >dominated. Additionally, bonobos are masters at solving inter-personal
> >problems via sex. According to my model, this cultural style
> would enhance
> >cognitive advantage because symbolic interaction subdues brute force. >>
> >
> >But we're smarter than bonobos and masters of CREATING interpersonal
> >problems via sex. Just goes to show you, I guess.
>
> Richard,
>
> It seems problems caused by sex are small compared to those caused by
> violence.
>
> Chimps are 4 times stronger than humans, pound for pound. Assuming chimps
> approximate our mutual primate ancestor of 6 million years ago, 'becoming
> weaker' provided a selective advantage to humans.
>
> IMO, humans have gotten stronger 'as a group' while becoming weaker
> individually because 'weak individuals' reduced the chance that genetic
> advances in cognitive expression would be lost. Strong, violent
> individuals can short circuit memetic replication (cogntive expression,
> symbolic acquisition) in a fit of rage. The 'strong
> individual/weak memetic
> replicator' evolutionary trajectory produces the gorilla. The 'weak
> individual/strong memetic replicator' produces the human trajectory. IOW,
> weak individuals provide a path for expression of primate cognitive
> advantage, the memetic advantage.
Alternate history premise:
What if Dr. Joseph Mengele had been converted to such a view?
>
> Consider the average size of great ape groups. Chimp groups are rarely
> exceed 60 individuals. Bonobo groups range grow to as high as 300
> individuals. Humans groups are now in the millions. Humans are
> the weakest
> individual, but strongest group. Humans have become so successful as
> groups, they are likely to drive all other great apes to
> extinction. There
> seems no environmental niche for alternative great ape evolutionary
> trajectories.
>
> Mark
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit