Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA19223 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:26:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [137.110.248.206] From: "Grant Callaghan" <grantc4@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Words and Memes Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:21:13 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <LAW2-F138Z0I8V7PeOB00010f39@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 17:21:14.0157 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6A795D0:01C1B4B2] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Words and Memes
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:27:49 GMT
>
>Ted:
> >Genes have a well-defined boundary.
>
>Grant:
> >Not true.  Biologists are still arguing about what constitutes a gene
>
>Derek:
>No, not really.  There is fairly good agreement on what contitutes a genes, 
>ie. that it is a protein-coding stretch of DNA, possibly including 
>regulatory elements and introns.  Gene-finding algorithms like GENSCAN, 
>Procrustes, Wise etc can even fish a gene out of a gigantic slab of DNA, 
>just by parsing the statistical properties of the sequence in terms of 
>Hidden Markov Models, homologies etc.  The gene is so well-defined, even a 
>computer can spot one (and mine does, all day long......)
>
>Grant:
>There
>seems to me to be almost as much confusion in the literature defining genes
>as there is in our effort to define memes.  Biologists seem to be having
>trouble deciding where to draw the line, too.
>
>Derek:
>No, there was a lot of serious discussion back in the 50s about what genes 
>were, as the molecular picture replaced the classical Mendelian one, but by 
>the early 80s, 'What is a gene?' had become a question that was only 
>trotted out in undergraduate exams to exercise our knowledge of the various 
>component parts.  Even prior to the discovery of DNA there was a fairly 
>rigid definition of a gene in operational terms, ie. its alleles had to be 
>non-complementary, it had to be a true-breeding trait, it had to exhibit 
>the appropriate segregation and assortment ratios in genetic crosses. (more 
>exam question fodder...)
>
>I'm not merely being pedantic about biology here, but every now and then 
>somebody will try to justify fuzziness about meme definitions by claiming 
>that gene definitions are just as fuzzy.  They aren't.
>
Ted, thanks for the update.  The books I read don't always have the latest 
information and that may be one of the reasons for my confusion.  The field 
is changing so rapidly it's hard to keep up.
Grant
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