Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA17471 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:48:19 GMT Message-ID: <007101c1ae8e$32be35c0$7624f4d8@teddace> From: "Dace" <edace@earthlink.net> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <200202050142.g151gHj08689@mail13.bigmailbox.com> Subject: Re: ality Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:43:48 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >> >> >Joe Dees:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> OF COURSE memories are stored in the brain, but cortical
> >> >neurons are plastic, and can easily relearn that which was excised
> >> >>>>
> >> >
> >> >How are neurons supposed to encode recently destroyed memories
> >> >when these memories no longer exist? Clearly, this is not an option.
> >> >
> >> You said that they were able to *relearn* them easily, so obviously, it
is.
> >
> >Scuse me? Here's what I said:
> >
> >"The attempt to scientifically demonstrate the existence of memory traces
> >or 'engrams' in the brain goes all the way back to the 20s, when Karl
> >Lashley experimented on conditioned learning in rats, monkeys, and
> >chimpanzees. He would train them to remember the correct reaction to a
> >given stimulus and then remove the portion of the brain utilized in the
> >conditioned response. The animals would quickly regain their former
> >memories, despite the permanent loss of brain tissue."
> >
> >The word "relearn" appeared only in your response, as quoted above.
> >
> In this case, to regain a response is indistinguishable from relearning
it.
If memories aren't encoded in the brain, then it's not necessary to relearn
anything. The mind simply relies on different neurons to facilitate the
recollection. If memories are indeed encoded in the brain, then once the
relevant neural tissue is destroyed, they're not going to suddenly pop up in
a different set of neurons.
> >> If you are saying that once the appropriate identified location was
> >*completely* excised, that the memory or action was supposedly able to
> >occur in its entirety the FIRST time as well as it did before the
excision, I
> >want URL or book references, with pagination, so's I can sell an article
> >refuting such ludicrous nonsense.
> >>>>
> >
> >You might benefit from an introductory textbook on the brain. Lashley's
> >article, "In search of the engram," appeared in the Symposium of the
Society
> >for Experimental Biology, 4:454-483. His student, Karl Pribram, pursued
the
> >possibility of holistically-stored memories in Languages of the Brain,
1971.
> >
> In my master's seminar in Biological Psychology we used the classic text
of the same name by James W. Kalat. I highly recommend it for CONTEPORARY,
rather than historical, cog-sci info.
>>>
Why don't you look up memory in it, and see what it says?
Ted
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