Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA15109 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 5 Feb 2002 01:21:41 GMT Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:16:27 +1100 Subject: Re: Selfish memes ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.edu.au> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200202050052.g150qw304570@mail13.bigmailbox.com> Message-Id: <FA42A8FC-19D5-11D6-9BE7-003065B4D1F0@wehi.edu.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 11:52 AM, Joe Dees wrote:
> Memes simply cannot be selfish because they are not self-reflective,
> i.e. they cannot say to themselves "I'd better take this action in my
> own self-interest". Memes do not possess intention. They simply
> mutate, that is, they are intentionally or inadvertantly mutated by us,
> their hosts, and the mutations that are better at both hooking into the
> cognitive environments of others and penetrating others' existing
> memetic filters disproportionately replicate.
>
The point of the "selfish gene/meme" metaphor is that we can model the
behavior/dynamics of these things *as if* they were rationally
self-interest agents. We can also model economic behavior that way, or
international relations, but nobody thinks that economic agents really
*are* rational, and as for international diplomacy... well.
This is because game theory, which is the branch of mathematics used by
Maynard Smith to mathematise selection processes in evolution, was
developed to deal with, oddly, economic behaviors and international
diplomacy, and it uses the rational egoist as the "ideal agent" from
which to begin so that "irrational" behaviors can be identified. But it
is not to say that people are either rational or egoistic, nor is it to
say that genes or memes are somehow reflective agents. It's just that
the maths works.
-- John S Wilkins Head, Communication Services The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research Parkville, Victoria, Australia=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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