Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA14930 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:12:09 GMT From: <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:08:29 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Apoptosis X-Mailer: WorldClient Pro 2.2.1 In-Reply-To: <E16A14FF-19C7-11D6-9BE7-003065B4D1F0@wehi.edu.au> Message-ID: <1199254890-26346956@smtp.clarityconnect.com> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi John,
A very interesting example. Reminds me of the old 'ontogeny
recapitulates phylogeny' adage. Genes and memes that are vestiges of
earlier organisms/memeplexes that are passed because of their value in a
developmental process.
Ray Recchia
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.edu.au>
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:35:32 +1100
Subject: Re: Apoptosis
> Forgive the top posting:
>
> Apoptosis is the genetically controlled death of cells based on the
> signals they receive from their neighbours. It is a form of cellular
> altruism that makes sense only at the level of organism selection -
> those organisms that have a failure of apoptotic mechanisms in some of
> their cells end up with cancer or developmental malformations or
> diseases like elephantisis.
>
> Memes could only be "programmed" to extinguish themselves if they were
> carried as part of a developmental program for a larger memeplex. And
> instance might be the teaching of billiard ball physics to students
> before they learn about the joys of QM and relativity theory.
>
> A better instance might be the "idea gas law" - teach them that first,
> then start teaching them about its failures, under P's that make van
> der
> Waals forces significant, etc. In this respect those propaedeutic memes
> might be seen as scaffolding for later more adaptive memes in the
> context of more sophisticated "ecologies" (ie, technologies).
>
> On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 03:07 AM,
> <rrecchia@mail.clarityconnect.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Kenneth
> >
> > Little confused by the question. Not sure how mutation rate links in
> to
> > apoptosis. Martyrdom would be a rough correlate to apoptosis i
> suppose
> > although the analogy between cell death for genes and person death
> for
> > memes is not a great one. Closer would just be death of an organism
> for
> > the kin selection advantages and death of a human and the memes
> he/she
> > carries for the advantage in propagating those memes. We have hashed
> > over martyrdom repeatedly on this list especially in the wake of the
> > September bombings.
> >
> > In terms of memes that alter other memes mutation rates I guess one
> > could
> > point to democracy and the scientific method. Both of these memes
> > survive because of their value as forces for generation and selection
> of
> > other memes. Genetic analogies would be all the genes that promote
> and
> > control recombination.
> >
> > Ray Recchia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
> > To: <kennethvanoost@myrealbox.com>
> > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:38:48 +0100
> > Subject: Apoptosis
> >
> >> Hi all, a question !?
> >>
> >>
> >> Apoptosis, the death response of cells.
> >> Is there a parallel in neurobiology, i/e/, is the mutation rate of
> >> memes linked
> >> to the death of other memes !?
> >>
> >> Anyone !?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Kenneth
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> John S Wilkins
> Head, Communication Services
> The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research
> Parkville, Victoria, Australia
>
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