Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id GAA02908 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:54:24 GMT X-Sender: unicorn@pop.greenepa.net Message-Id: <p04320403b87a76dfaf2d@[192.168.2.3]> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020127103301.01c31210@mail.iinet.net.au> References: <4.2.0.58.20020126061028.01c04890@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020124180900.01d49d90@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020123181508.01c5bb30@mail.iinet.net.au> <F223bCc9FPsBR2fY2Bs000254a6@hotmail.com> <F223bCc9FPsBR2fY2Bs000254a6@hotmail.com> <4.2.0.58.20020123181508.01c5bb30@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020124180900.01d49d90@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020126061028.01c04890@mail.iinet.net.au> <4.2.0.58.20020127103301.01c31210@mail.iinet.net.au> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 01:50:36 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: "Francesca S. Alcorn" <unicorn@greenepa.net> Subject: Re: Rogue Males by Lionel Tiger Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Frankie said:
>>.... offering well-reasoned statements laying out your beliefs in a
>>way that people can see the value of your point.
Stephen said:
>"Reason" will have limited effect. Some reasons for this include:
> 1) There is too much momentum, too much invested in the
>mainstream view, in order to willingly accept change. People will
>only change their views when they WANT to change them;
> 2) There is a tendency, particularly in the West (as I see
>it) to defer judgement to higher authorities. Self-evident "truths"
>are of limited value for us, unless they bear the stamp of approval
>from the relevant authority (academic institution, popular author,
>etc).
>
>Any of the prominent feminists, such as Germain Greer and the like,
>attained notoriety less through reason than through rocking the
>establishment. Generally, particularly at the cutting edge of
>feminism, their ideas were ignored until a certain critical mass of
>public opinion was reached. People do not base their views on reason
>alone. Far from it.
Ah hah, this explains your aversion to it. :) (sorry, I couldn't resist)
>>>And if their answer is based in materialism or "security", or if
>>>it is based in attention-seeking
>>
>>But these are all adaptive motivations, in the sense of natural
>>selection, however distasteful you might find them.
>
>If so, then in this context, patriarchal oppression of women is
>similarly an adaptive motivation and shouldn't women, according to
>your reasoning, accept their role as acquiescent doormats?
I don't see how this necessarily follows from what I said. Killing
off competitors is an adaptive strategy, that doesn't mean we should
just shrug our shoulders and have at each other. There are better
ways.
frankie
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