Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA28061 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 26 Jan 2002 04:16:02 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125225906.02c5bc50@pop.cogeco.ca> X-Sender: hkhenson@pop.cogeco.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:13:30 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Keith Henson <hkhenson@cogeco.ca> Subject: Re: Selfish meme? In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F35eqXItMcx4vv00001a06@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 03:30 PM 25/01/02 -0800, "Grant Callaghan" <grantc4@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>>Grant:
>> > Does anyone see a similarity here between words and memes?
>>
>>I see an even stronger relationship:
>>Words *are* memes (but not all memes are words).
>>
>>Philip.
>
>Exactly so, so why can't the study of words and how they are created and
>propogated provide clues to the essence of all memes as well as defining
>them, where they come from and what they do? We have a pretty good handle
>on words and language, so why is it so hard to understand what memes are
>in general? How can people deny that memes exist without saying that
>words don't exist? Or saying that words are not memes? It's an illogical
>arguement.
>
>Grant
I really wish the list members would illustrate with examples. It is my
considered opinion that most of the time words are just words and not
memes. For example, "idea" is about as close as you can get to "meme." If
you put it in the phrase "an idea that is passed on to another person" you
have the "meme about memes." As I have mentioned, one of the shortest
memes I know is Watt's phrase "separate condenser." It would have been
instantly understood by engineers of the time because they knew where the
big loses were happening in the crude engines of the day.
Memes don't have to be expressed in words. You would not have to use a
single word to show someone how to chip out a "killer frisbee" a million
and a half years ago, and the learned songs of birds and whales are memes
without words.
Keith Henson
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