Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id GAA18667 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:38:23 GMT Message-ID: <006a01c1a3df$ff260200$6621aace@oemcomputer> From: "PHILIP JONKERS" <philipjonkers@prodigy.net> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <LAW2-F131wtNF1XEsKq00007486@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Recursive def. of the meme Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:31:38 -0900 Organization: Prodigy Internet Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Philip:
> >Recursive def. o/t meme:
> >An element of culture that can be replicated/transmitted.
> >In addition, it has a set of properties or features that
> >determine its uniqueness which, in turn, are memes too (by some
> >mode).
> >
> >In other words: a meme can be expressed in other more primitive
> >memes.
> >This definition has the benefit that it explicitly recognizes the
> >observation
> >that memes can be expressed in memes, which can be expressed in
> >memes etc...
> >New memes have to be expandable in known memes in order
> >to disseminate and communicate its existence over the population.
> >The process of recursion ends when the level of expressive memes
> >becomes
> >so primitive that further recursion is impossible (the
> >non-uniqueness
> >condition is then violated). This level may be called the atomic
> >level
> >of memes.
> >
> >Examples:
> >
> >An idea can be expressed in phrases, metaphors, slogans,
> >single sentences, themes, theorems etc. which constitutes the
> >first
> >primitive level. In turn, phrases, metaphors and the like can be
> >expressed
> >in single words, the second primitive level. Words can be
> >expressed in letters
> >and marks. Further recursion is impossible as the sticks, bars
> >and circles
> >used to construct character do not uniquely belong to one
> >particular
> >character. The single symbols therefore constitute the atomic
> >meme-level.
> >
> >An invention such as the airplane consists of parts like wheels,
> >wings,
> >fuselage and cockpit which may constitutes the first primitive
> >level.
> >Wings consist of flat and curved metal plates, fuel containers
> >and a
> >metallic framework to keep the construction together: the second
> >primitive
> >level. The metal plates may consist of several metallic layers,
> >paint,
> >anti-corrosive layers and nuts and bolts. All these elements can
> >be
> >expressed in more detail by giving the materials or chemicals
> >involved,
> >ways of fabrication, number of threads in bolts, etc. This level
> >of
> >description would be the atomic level (although recursion may go
> >beyond
> >this point from engineering into the realm of physics and
> >chemistry.)
> >
> >A complex behavior such as a fancy eating etiquette or royal
> >inauguration
> >may be decomposed in several programs of bodily movements. Each
> >of these
> >programs may be expressed further into more primitive patterns of
> >movement/
> >behavior until the movements are too mundane and non-unique to
> >allow further
> >recursion. The atomic level has been reached then.
> >
> >Comments, additions, wise-cracks? All are welcome...
> >
> >Philip.
> >
> I like it. We might even try to order the memes which make up the
artifact
> according to how they appeared on a timeline, based on the memes from
which
> they evolved.
>
> The airplane wheel, for example came from wheels for land vehicles, which
> came from wheels for chariots, which came from moving things atop rolling
> logs, etc., etc.
>
> Elements of ettiquet, on the other hand, were developed and handed down as
> customary behavior in rich or royal families. Outsiders modeled their
> behavior to be acceptable to those they wanted to join. When royalty
> started using forks, soon everyone was using them. When one royal family
> visited another and were outshone by their hosts with some new practice,
it
> soon became part of the scene for every royal household. Being able to
take
> note of the artifacts and trace them historically provides a sense of
> perspective to the process of meme development and how culture as a whole
> developed.
This illustrates how ettiquettes evolved, interesting. As a side-note, I
gave
ettiquettes as an example because precisely such kind of behavior seem to
follow
a clearly definable protocol of behavior. Compared to less restricted
behavior
like playing football they are relatively easily decomposable into primitive
memes.
Philip.
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