Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA07979 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 20 Jan 2002 03:49:30 GMT Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:45:09 -0800 Message-Id: <200201200345.g0K3j9h09028@mail9.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [65.80.162.26] From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Islamism Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:54:44 +0000
> Douglas Brooker <dbrooker@clara.co.uk> memetics@mmu.ac.uk Re: IslamismReply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>Hi Lawrence,
>
>Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
>
>> Hello, Doug,
>>
>> One of the effects of our actions in Afghanistan and of Bush's "war"
>> language/meme, is an increased destabilization in Saudi Arabia (among
>> others). Saudi Arabia began distancing itself from US actions at least a
>> couple of months ago, when it prohibited munitions transfer on its territory
>> for US planes bombing Afghanistan, specifically of the that monster bomb --
>> what was it called -- the Daisy something? The US military had hurriedly to
>> relocate its staging bases into neighboring areas.
>
>Leaving Saudi Arabia will make it more difficult to maintain bases in other
>places in the Gulf.
>
The Saudis talking were not in charge of foreign policy for the country. There are 30,000 members of the House of Saud, and most of them are not in charge, just genetically petrowealthy.
>
>The consequences of the intervention will play themselves out over the next
>decade, this isn't a short term thing. Is it controversial to say this is about
>the oil in the Central Asian Republics? Does anyone think that China and Russia
>are going to welcome an American presence there with open arms?
>
Sure they will. Russia has its own problem with the Islamofascists in Chechnya and other southern areas, and China has problems with them in the Xinjiang province.
>
>> Have you seen Mamoun's Fandy's SAUDI ARABIA AND THE POLITICS OF DISSENT? It
>> has some interesting descriptions of current Saudi dissent, and a chapter on
>> Bin Laden, written, refreshingly, before Sept 11, 2001.
>>
>
>I read a bit about it - one criticism of the the book was it focused on
>fundamentalist dissent and ignored more liberal Islamic opposition groups.
>These groups exist in Saudi Arabia and other countries.
>
>A memetic issue here seems to be the effect of fear on Western foreign policy.
>Western leaders fear 'them', they don't fear the West. There are not many
>other Islamic countries that are suitable for the kind of righteous bombing
>campaign that is still going on. One of the mythic adages of the 'warrior' is
>about not letting you enemy determine your actions. Has the Pentagon 'blown
>its wad?'
>
>The Daisy Cutter bomb (a 15,000 pound ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil) bomb), which has an effective range of 600 yards from impact point, was used on front lines, where no one but combatants would be, and in secluded strongholds in isolated and barren areas, where the only civilians were going to be family members of combatants. The intention is to kill as many Al Quaeda as possible, for each one left alive is a potential mass murderer.
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a book? Want a deal? No problem AddALL!
http://www.addall.com compares book price at 41 online stores.
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Jan 20 2002 - 03:57:07 GMT