Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id JAA24330 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:05:51 GMT Message-ID: <3C454182.9020001@bioinf.man.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:01:54 +0000 From: Chris Taylor <Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk> Organization: University of Manchester User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-gb To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: A Confusing Example References: <200201160608.g0G68Qf21891@mail9.bigmailbox.com> <3C453D7A.8070301@bioinf.man.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Not mimicry (it was early)...
Chris Taylor wrote:
> This is just a classic case of convergent evolution (I reckon). Same
> environs - same outcome (some of the time). c.f. Auks and penguins,
> marsupial wolf/tiger thingy, Batesian and Mullerian mimicry, lots of
> better examples it's too early to think of.
>
> I think this is also how we are 'programmed' to learn to use our hands
> (for e.g.) - facilitated discovery of function - you sort of fall into
> doing the right thing. Like protein folding kinetics. Also a bit (more)
> like those (sim)fish that wired themselves up to swim after a bit of
> twitching (Karl Sims?).
>
> I bet lots of early religions worshipped the sun, and we all share
> common cultural items, some of which do not have a common origin. I'd be
> interested to compare the space programs (for e.g.) to see this in
> action (spies though...). I'd be interested to see 'ecosystem' as well
> as 'species' level convergence, and the ramifications of
> early/environmental differences.
>
> Joe Dees wrote:
>
>> Interesting question...
>>
>> What would you call it when the source sets up a scenario where the
>> target
>> cannot help but to reach the desired conclusion (the meme) by
>> observing the
>> surroundings you have created? There is no direct communication, but
>> there
>> is still a deliberate transferrence.
>>
>> Brief example: A's roommate B is a slob. A has already shown, told,
>> written
>> and pictured to no avail in an attempt to transfer his/her
>> "cleanliness is
>> good" meme. Finally A takes all of B's most useful and/or treasured
>> belongings and hides them in the lowest strata of the debris. B comes
>> home,
>> can't find his shit, and realizes that it's because there is no order
>> to the
>> arrangement of his belongings, and decides of his own accord (in his
>> perspective) that "cleanliness is good, because then I can find my
>> homework/tools/bong/whatever."
>>
>> I'm not sure that this qualifies as meme transference in your model,
>> but my
>> instinct is that it should. (The meme has, after all, been
>> transferred). If
>> it does qualify, what would you call that? Assisted Discovery?
>>
>> -ben
>>
>> What do y'all make of this example? I'm unsure how to characterize it.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
>> To: <virus@lucifer.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:08 PM
>> Subject: virus: Modes of Transmission
>>
>>
>> On the memetics list, we have come up with four modes of memetic
>> transmission:
>>
>> 1) Showing - a bodily demonstration, such as knapping a handaxe for
>> an audience.
>>
>> 2) Telling - verbally or manually (signing) communicating via a common
>> symbol system.
>>
>> 3) Writing - inscribing glyphs which stand for spoken/signed language.
>>
>> 4) Picturing - creating a representation of the object of communication
>> via drawing, photography, etc.
>>
>> Can anyone here think of others?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> ===============================================================
>> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>>
>>
>
>
>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk) http://bioinf.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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