Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA16311 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:45:22 GMT From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:17:40 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAMEEPCJAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020112231411.02c39890@pop.cogeco.ca> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Thanks, Keith, for your eloquent summary of the cultural characteristics
that are perturbing traditional societies. My sense is that it is not a
matter of 'western' culture vs that of the 'islamic world', but rather one
of the gloablizing/commercial world vs the world of the fundamentalist. The
Christian and Muslim worlds share the same internal cultural stresses:
'modernism' vs 'fundamentalism.' (I am using the terms here in the same
sense that Karen Armstrong does in her quite remarkable book, The Battle for
God.)
In the west, it would seem, 'modernism' has the upper hand against
'fundamentalism', and in some parts of the Arab and Muslim worlds,
'fundamentalism' seems to have the upper hand. Armstrong suggests that both
fundamentalisms are largely a reaction to the process of modernisation and
the cultural charcaterisitcs that you point to. She suggests that the
_mythos_-based world of fundamentalism is in conflict with _logos_-based
modern society. I do believe that if there is to be any grand world
cultural war, it will split along these lines, modern vs fundamentalist, and
that peoples both in the Islamic world and the west will find themselves
embroiled in it. Bucky Fuller will have much more in common with Fouad Ajami
than he will with Jerry Falwell. Pat Robertson will have more in common with
Mullah Omar than he will with Alan Greenspan...
Armstrong has an excellent paragraph on the matter of the 'displacement'
caused in traditional societies by the modernization associated with the
west and embraced by many Muslim elite. I'll try to upload a bit of it in a
mater message to this list.
Lawrence
> I think in a post analysis the real competition will be seen as between
> "western" culture and everything else. "Western" in this sense includes
> Japan and the advanced countries of south Asia as well as the more
> traditional countries. Japan, for example, contributes significant
> cultural elements to the rest of "Western" culture. "Popular" is another
> name for it. Religion is not a major element.
>
> It's hard to describe all the major elements, but music, fashion, movies
> and TV shows are parts of it. High tech gadgets are part of it, and to a
> lesser extent, the free market environment it takes to make them.
> (No way
> you can do a 5 year plan to produce things nobody has invented yet!)
>
> Near as I can tell nobody in power cares if western/popular
> culture pushes
> into Islamic culture and displaces it or not. Because it is not static,
> the older leaders of the western countries usually express disdain for
> their own popular culture. Can't blame them, piercings give me
> fantods. (Meme of the day, nipple rings and chain mail is a bad
> combination.)
>
> Keith Henson
>
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Jan 13 2002 - 20:56:22 GMT