Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA13983 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:55:10 GMT From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:27:54 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAKEEDCJAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <JJEIIFOCALCJKOFDFAHBMEOJEBAA.richard@brodietech.com> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Take the instances I listed below. Each of them implies that Christians
(Americans) have the right to act the way they have in these instances, and
have that right because Muslims are to be hated. The attacks by the US on
Arab and Muslims countries, listed below, were carried out outside
international and US law. At least two instances (Tripoli and Sudan) were
found subsequently to be without justification. Muslims are inferior, goes
the implicit and at times explicit argument, and so it is acceptable to hate
them.
To put the point more specifically, a US Congressman (from Louisiana, I
believe?) called Arabs/Muslims a people who wear diapers and fan belts on
their heads. Islam is routinely accused of oppressing women (though most who
do so are confusing the Taliban with Islam). And all too many US
commentators gleefully describe the inferiorities of Islam while ignoring
its accomplishments. I attended a local church service, and the pastor
picked up on this refrain, and said that any society that harbored within it
those who could carry out Sept. 11 was itself evil (an echo of Bush's 'those
who harbor terrorist' argument). Even Thomas Friedman, who used to have a
semi-balanced view of the Middle East, has fallen in with the anti-Muslim
views of post-Sept. 11.
All this, unchallenged by any significant body of American political, legal
or moral leaders, conveys to the American people (children or adults) that
Muslims are not worthy of fair or legal treatment. Sept 11 proved a bonanza
for those who hate, whether they are Muslims who hate America, or Americans
who hate Muslims. All too many educated Americans fell for it, as have, I
would guess, all too many educated Muslims.
Lawrence
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Richard Brodie
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 12:38 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception
>
>
> No, that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking where Christian
> children are
> being taught to hate Muslims.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Lawrence DeBivort
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 8:54 AM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception
>
>
>
> Please remember we are asking how Muslim children might get the
> 'meme' that
> Christians are out to kill them, in parallel with Chriustian kids getting
> the 'meme' that Muslims are out to kill them...
>
> What Christians have done to Muslims recently that might spread the meme
> that Christians are out to kill Muslims:
>
> - Somalia
> - Attack on civilian sections of Tripoli
> - US bombings of Iraq post-Kuwait
> - Sudan -- Clinton's cruise missiles
> - Afghanistan - ditto
>
> Each of these US actions -- entirely justified in US gov't eyes -- killed
> and harmed Muslim civilians.
>
> And then we have the highly publicised:
>
> - Bush's 'the evil ones' used without specification
>
> - Bush's 'crusade' - later retracted by Bush if not by those who planted
> this ill-conceived language in his mind), but only after the
> 'crusade' meme
> had spread
>
> - Afghanistan 'collateral damage' -- this meme, launched by the DoD and
> Bush, has been well-exploited to suggest a callous disrgard to
> the death and
> maiming of innocents.
>
> I won't even go into the two-centuries of colonialism by the
> Christian West
> (often and more recently with US participation) that preceded all of this.
> But will, if you inquire ;-D
>
> Some will want to argue with us about how some or all of these actions are
> 'justified' but this is not of great interest here: we are
> talking about the
> acts, perceptions and language what create and spread memes.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
> > I don't see the parallel. Where is that happening?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> > Of Lawrence DeBivort
> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:11 AM
> > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > Subject: RE: Knowledge, Memes and Sensory Perception
> >
> >
> > In the same way, I suppose, that Muslim parents have to worry about
> > Christian kids being taught that it is alright to kill Muslims.
> >
> >
> > > <<It's not the memes you have to worry about, it's the people who use
> > > them.>>
> > >
> > > So we don't have to worry about Muslim children being taught that the
> > > highest goal in life is to kill themselves in an attack on Americans?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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