Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA06062 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:12:23 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3102A6D17E@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Wilkins on the meme:engram relation Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:46:45 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
'even social scientists'?
That's a bit like arguments where someone goes 'even slugs have brains, of
sorts'. I assume you didn't mean that in the pejorative sense? :-)
Vincent
> ----------
> From: AaronLynch@aol.com
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2001 23:02 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Wilkins on the meme:engram relation
>
> In a message dated 12/4/2001 10:40:28 PM Central Standard Time, John
> Wilkins
> <wilkins@wehi.edu.au> writes:
>
> > Exactly this sort of confusion arises in the context of "gene" -
> > initially it was well-defined (by Johannsen, IIRC) as a Mendelian
> > hereditary factor (ie, anything that assorted in the Mendelian ratio).
> > As the context broadened, it was gradually less exact, and people had
> to
> > coin new terms like cistron, intron, codon, and the like to become more
>
> > exact. When molecular biology realised that a "functional" gene could
> be
> > anything at all from a single codon to an entire karyotype (in the case
>
> > of some asexuals), it became clear that the term had exceeded its
> useful
> > life. You generally will find people being very restricted in their use
>
> > of the word in the primary literature (eg, the Bcl-2 gene, or the
> > eyeless gene), so that it has an implicit subscript or index.
> >
> > Memes do not assort in a ratio that requires this sort of definition.
> > They are defined (by Dawkins) as those things that are transmitted
> "with
> > appreciable frequency" after the definition by GC Williams in his 1966
> > book. This makes memes definitional objects - they are nominal things,
> > not actual ones. A meme is whatever we can recognise as being
> > transmitted, for whatever reason, with appreciable frequency, and so is
>
> > subject to selection.
> >
>
> Hi John.
>
> In the case of "meme," we already have some more specific terms available
> for
> the kinds of things to which the term "meme" has been applied. These
> include
> "idea," "artifact," "behavior," "institution," etc. Because these terms
> are
> older and used by as many as a billion people, their meaning cannot easily
>
> make a dramatic change in the course of a scientist's career. Both the
> wide
> prevalence and the slowness of change in meaning can reduce the
> possibility
> of confusion when using these terms.
>
> The word "gene" also did not suffer any confusions arising from analogy to
>
> some other field. The word "meme," on the other hand, does suffer such
> confusions. Its meaning evolves not only by the influence from studies of
> culture, but also according to how closely it resembles various meanings
> for
> "gene." One of the distractions, for instance, is the idea that someone
> must
> be able to view a "meme" under a microscope -- an idea that Dawkins
> himself
> introduced in The Extended Phenotype (1982).
>
>
> --Aaron Lynch
>
> http://www.thoughtcontagion.com
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
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