Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA28203 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:27:58 GMT Message-ID: <008c01c17b66$e9a882a0$7bc0b3d1@teddace> From: "Dace" <edace@earthlink.net> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <200112020228.fB22Slw08455@mail12.bigmailbox.com> Subject: Re: A Question for Wade Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:24:06 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Joe,
> > The brain is
> >simply the mind in the current moment. It's precisely that aspect of the
> >mind that's *not* memory. What's in the brain is only a snap-shot of
memes.
> >None of the traits of memes are visible in this slice of life.
> >
> You can't read memes off an fMRI I grant you, but when PET scans are
taken, the activated parts of the brain which have been associated with the
performance of various cognitive tasks light up as different tasks are
presented to the subject, INCLUDING memory tests. Different areas light up
for different tasks, and they are the ones that we commonly understand to be
used in the performance of the associated task.
>>>
This demonstrates one of two things: 1. The brain contains the mind. 2. The
brain facilitates the mind. I favor the latter interpretation.
> >The big problem for a neurologically irreducible mind is the apparent
> >uselesslness of mentality in the functioning of the nervous system. If
the
> >rest of your body has no need for a mind, why would the brain require
one?
> >
> So that that body could maximize its survival chances in the environment
by remembering previously learned environmental lessons, faithfully
representing the present environment and its threats and opportunities, and
extrapolating them into further likelihoods between which one might be able
to choose most favored alternatives by means of present action. In other
words, better choices. This also points to conscious self-awareness, for it
is upon the basis of the welfare of the self that such choices would be
made.
>>>
But why does the brain require a mind to do those things? If the brain can
represent, remember, and extrapolate, the mind is superfluous. Hearts can
apparently pump blood without mental assistance, and kidneys don't seem to
need minds to filter waste. If brains require minds, then the same goes for
all our organs. At all levels of structure, the body is informed by its own
past behaviors.
> >The only way to salvage a notion of
> >mentality (and self-nature) is to universalize it. Life is mind. Mind
is
> >life. What makes a thing alive is that it can't be understood except in
the
> >context of its own living past. Life is memory. It's not just the brain
> >that's influenced by mentality (relfexive or not) but every organic
> >structure.
> >
> This sounds like the panvitalistic panpsychism that was propounded by
Erwin Schrodinger in his books WHAT IS LIFE?, MIND AND MATTER, and MY VIEW
OF THE WORLD. It's kinda a pseudophilosophical Hinduism, believing all
life, mind and soul to be the expression of a single force, as Hinduism
proper unites the world-soul with the self-soul in their famous
pronouncements Brahmatman (Brahmin is Atman) anf Tvat Am Asi (That Thou
Art). It is irreduceably a mystical and religious, not an empirical or
philosophical, perspective.
>>>
I do agree that everything reduces to a single force. In my view, that
force is time. I interpret Brahman accordingly. Brahman is traditionally
divided between shakti (potency) and maya (illusion). For me, shakti is the
absolute presence of time, which we know through our minds, while maya is
merely moment-to-moment materialization, which we know through our senses.
Since whatever we perceive around us has in fact already occurred, the
material "present" is actually past. In that sense, the realm of the senses
is illusory.
As to panpsychism, mind is indeed universal insofar as it's an expression of
time, and time is universal. Life is anima, and time is animation.
Ted
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