Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA27930 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 2 Dec 2001 15:56:46 GMT Message-ID: <003b01c17b49$f1181180$ec02bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <20011126041718.AAA20176%camailp.harvard.edu@[205.240.180.14]> <01112916442702.01076@storm.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Definition, Please Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 16:56:10 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Philip A.E. Jonkers <phae@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: Definition, Please
What's inside is something else. Human
> > evolution requires sexual reproduction, and the only way memetic
> > evolution could happen would require a sexual component as well.
>
> Biological evolution does not require sexual reproduction per se, that's
> a subtle misconception. The three ingredients for having evolution are:
> variation, selection and retention. If organisms do not reproduce sexually
> but use kloning instead, they have to rely on the very rare event of
mutation
> to facilitate variation. Hence a slow form of evolution.
> The advent of sexual reproduction, on the other hand, meant a dramatic
> increase in variation resulting in a very rapid rate of evolution.
<< But how do you make this consistent with the rapid evolution of or with
the contaigon- concept by memes !?
In a circular logic we must pre- suppose than that the increase in variation
of memes, and therefor the very rapid rate of cultural evolution resulted
from a kinda ' memetical ' sexual reproduction !?
Because, the thing is_ ' we' exclude the possibility that memes or meme-
tical info can affect the sex cells or the lineage of cells that led to them
( germline); we suppose that neural connections make up the knowledge
we now possess of the world and we learn/ imitate/ select the kind of
information we propagate further to our offspring.
An evolutionary system evolves.
But children are not born as white sheets of paper, a memetic isomorphism is
present and IMO that did evolve over the eons of time.
And yes, you can explain this easily with genetic variation, mutation and
selection, but somehow we have to acknowledge the fact that within the
memetic isomorphistic elements information is present which cannot be
required genetically. How can than the pre- supposed evolution of the
isomorphistic element take place !?
Can we pre- suppose a sexual component !? I think we can.
Maybe we must consider to give the idea that there is some kind of compa-
tibility in the way memes combine, some thought.
Maybe memes combine, form the isomorphistic element and gets tranferred
to the offspring genetically, and maybe there is in each gene a part of the
isomorphistic element present, maybe that is the just the element by which
each gene will develop itself in the specific way it does.
Maybe....
Regards,
Kenneth
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