RE: Field of Memes

From: Lawrence DeBivort (debivort@umd5.umd.edu)
Date: Wed Nov 28 2001 - 18:04:11 GMT

  • Next message: Wade Smith: "Re: Field of Memes"

    Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA18852 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:07:31 GMT
    From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
    To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Subject: RE: Field of Memes
    Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:04:11 -0500
    Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAOEFOCIAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
    X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
    In-reply-to: <CA8AA0A1-E41C-11D5-86B0-003065A0F24C@harvard.edu>
    Importance: Normal
    Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
    Precedence: bulk
    Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    

    Hi Wade,
    I don't mean to nitpick -- if one treats the Taliban as the tribe, other
    critical political and social dynamics will be overlooked. The Taliban
    leadership does not think of itself as a tribal one; it sees itself as a
    fundamentalist pan-Islamic one, based in Afghanistan. The tribe to which
    most Taliban belong is Pashtun, and they are equally divided between
    Pakistan and Afghanistan. Trying not to oversimplify, these differences are
    what have led Pakistan, the USA, and the Saudis into the difficulties they
    now face. E.g., the Pakistani gov't tried to fit the Pashtun into a
    fundamentalist Islamic identity, and overlooked the Pashtun primal desire
    for independence from Pakistan and the 'northern' and 'western' parts of
    Afghanistan, inhabited by Hazaris, Uzbeks and Tajiks. So sometimes the
    Taliban leadership act like tribal Pastuns, and sometimes like
    pan-Islamists. In neither case to they act on traditional tribal law
    (Pastunwali) or Quranic law, which gets non-fundamentalist Pashtuns and
    Muslims angry (and in my opinion, properly so) at them. If the Pakistanis
    get it so wrong and they live next door, you can imagine how hard it is for
    the US to understand the situation!

    Well, this is probably more than anyone wanted to know about the Taliban....

    Lawrence

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
    > Of Wade Smith
    > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:27 AM
    > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    > Subject: Re: Field of Memes
    >
    >
    > > Taliban is not a tribe;
    >
    > Well, hmm, that could be nitpicking. It is certainly a 'tribal
    > ego' which is what Ted said.
    >
    > > But your point, IMO, is essentially correct: that tribalism is still
    > > prevalent and well. The response of the American people to Sept
    > > 11 might
    > > also be seen as tribal.
    >
    > Yes, that was my point.
    >
    > - Wade
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Nov 28 2001 - 18:13:37 GMT