Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA14167 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:03:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.222.132] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: A Question for Wade Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:58:18 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F300YAlNyGSpcIZlOCc000130e8@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2001 23:58:19.0151 (UTC) FILETIME=[38D2E9F0:01C176D6] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: "Joe Dees" <joedees@addall.com>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: A Question for Wade
>Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:48:44 -0800
>
>
>
> > Re: A Question for WadeDate: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:32:16 -0500
> > "Wade T.Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu> "Memetics Discussion List"
><memetics@mmu.ac.uk>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >
> >Hi Scott Chase -
> >
> >>What's so special about the "meme" term? Why can't we just use "idea",
> >>"belief", or "concept" to say the same thing? As Ernst Mayr says of the
> >>meme:
> >>
> >>(bq) "It seems to me that this word is nothing but an unnecessary
>synonym of
> >>the term "concept"." (eq)
> >
> >All of which and thus forced me to reconstruct my own thinking and remove
> >all farce. The meme is a cultural artifact. Any other usage is erroneous
> >and multiplicative.
> >
> Memes are not things, but meaningful patterns in which matter/energy
>is arranged. This is true whether we are talking about the meaningful
>sound patterns in which air is arranged to enunciate words, the meaningful
>geometrical patterns in which ink or pixels or pencil lead are arranged to
>write them, the meaningful action patterns out bodies enact in order to
>type or write or speak them, or the meaningful neuron/synapse activation
>patterns in which such representations are stored in our brains.
>
Did you catch my question to you where I asked what the difference between
your beloved L-meme and a mnemon, the latter term actually used by Lynch
himself, though independent of Young and Cherkin? What's your opinion of
Lynch saying on his website (http://www.thoughtcontagion.com) that the term
"meme" is expendable? If we are talking about internal neural
representations related to memory storage there are terms with longer
pedigrees IMO.
>
>The selfsame meme, say, the idea that memes don't exist, may be represented
>in all of these differing media, and yet be the same meme, for what is
>constant is not the pattern itself (example: different languages), since a
>meme may be represented in many different ways in any particular medium,
>and may be represented in many different media, but the connection between
>the patterns, as differing representamens, and the idea or concept, as
>referent. To say that these representati!
>ons exist (as they obviously do), and that they MEAN the same thing, and
>then to maintain that they possess no common referent, makes no logical
>sense to me.
>
>
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