Re: state of memes

From: Scott Chase (ecphoric@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Oct 03 2001 - 04:26:40 BST

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    From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com>
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject: Re: state of memes
    Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 23:26:40 -0400
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    >From: "Dace" <edace@earthlink.net>
    >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    >To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    >Subject: Re: state of memes
    >Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:16:11 -0700
    >
    > > Hi Lawrence.
    > >
    > > I'm not sure if the excerpt from Chomsky really addresses the matter of
    >why
    > > the US and other countries wanted to have a war against Iraq. The
    >segment
    > > seems to suggest that stock prices might have been a motive, or that
    > > territory was a motive. And the oil motive almost does not need to be
    > > mentioned to be suspect, even if there is no clear reason why the US
    >would
    > > prefer to buy from Kuwait than from an expanded Iraq.
    > >
    > > Yet a far graver threat was posed by Iraq through its nuclear weapons
    > > program. That weapons program was explicitly announced by Saddam Husein
    > > himself during the Iran-Iraq war. A nuclear reactor capable of producing
    > > fissile materials for atomic bombs was being built by a French company
    >in
    > > Iraq at the time. Iraq had been using chemical weapons against the
    >Iranians,
    > > but the Iranians were clearly afraid of the nuclear threat. So they
    >tried
    >to
    > > attack Iraq's reactor from the air, but unsuccessfully. Then Hussein
    >made
    >a
    > > mistake by announcing that the weapons to be produced were not for use
    > > against Iran, but rather, for use against Israel. So Israel sent in a
    > > squadron of advanced US fighter-bombers armed with "smart bombs" and
    > > disguised as Jordanian aircraft. They then made short work of the Iraqi
    > > reactor. But Iraq continued its efforts to build an atomic bomb. Whether
    >you
    > > want to call the weapons ideas "memes" or "thought contagions" or
    >whatever,
    > > the basic ideas behind nuclear weapons had clearly proliferated to Iraqi
    > > weapons scientists even as the weapons themselves had not--at least not
    >yet.
    > >
    > > After the invasion of Kuwait, Saddam Hussein even held up some
    > > high-performance capacitors capable of dumping their charge very quickly
    >into
    > > the plastic explosives that initiate a fission bomb. Such capacitors
    >would
    > > have had very high capacitance, high voltage, low parasitic inductance,
    >and
    > > low parasitic resistance as a result of modern materials science
    >advances.
    > > Hussein was, in effect, threatening to use nuclear weapons against the
    >United
    > > States or any other country that might reverse his conquest of Kuwait.
    > > According to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists,
    > > (http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1992/jf92/jf92.albright.html), the
    >Gulf
    > > War was therefore "the non-proliferation measure of last resort." By the
    > > implications of that assessment, a negotiated withdrawal from Kuwait
    >really
    > > would have been a "nightmare scenario."
    > >
    > > Some might say that we should not worry if Iraq should become just
    >another
    > > member of the nuclear club. Yet each new "member," poses a very serious
    >risk
    > > to us all, especially if the country or organization is strongly
    >oriented
    > > toward initiating conquest and warfare. The problem is not so much that
    >one
    > > or two fission bombs would destroy a country such as the USA, although
    >such
    > > weapons would certainly put to shame all the present talk of "Ground
    >Zero"
    >at
    > > the World Trade Center in New York. The real problem is that with just a
    >few
    > > atomic bombs, someone who is really determined to start a new empire
    >could
    > > smuggle fission bombs into some major cities of a country such as the
    >USA
    >or
    > > Russia. Then they could use nuclear blackmail to attempt to extort an
    >arsenal
    > > of advanced hydrogen bombs. Along with millions of others, Noam Chomsky
    >could
    > > have been relieved of his electrons by the likes of Saddam Hussein.
    > >
    > > --Aaron Lynch
    > >
    > > http://www.thoughtcontagion.com
    >
    >Aaron,
    >
    >Your "thought contagion" site is the best discussion of memes I've seen yet
    >(if you don't mind me using Dawkins' slippery term.) Thanks.
    >
    >I can't say much in favor of your analysis of American policy in the Middle
    >East. It's silly to think that Iraq, had it possessed the requisite
    >technology, would have considered launching a nuclear attack against the
    >United States. Armed with 24 missiles, each containing up to 17
    >independently maneuverable warheads, a single Trident submarine (of which
    >we
    >have 22) could have obliterated the country in minutes. Saddam wanted
    >nukes
    >because boys like toys. At no point would such weapons have offered him
    >any
    >leverage against the US.
    >
    >
    Probably not the U.S., since Israel is much closer.

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