Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA09937 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 20 Sep 2001 18:54:02 +0100 From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <debivort@umd5.umd.edu> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Dawkins View Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 13:33:25 -0400 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAAEGICGAA.debivort@umd5.umd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-reply-to: <JJEIIFOCALCJKOFDFAHBKENEDHAA.richard@brodietech.com> Sender: fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Alternative # 3
Carry out a criminal investgation and if indeed Bin Laden is found
responsible (as seems probable) then move to normal international
extradition process via resident government. In the meantime, learn about
Islamic international law -- there are openings for reasonable and
productive discourse on these issues that fall well within Muslim
international law. If the resident government turns out to be Afghanistan
(less probable), establish diplomatic relations with Afghani (or whoever)
government first, and present evidence or connection of suspicions second.
If extradition fails, consider negotiations with Afghan government. Reserve
right of unilateral intervention, if necessary.
Alternative # 4
Analyze/profile al-Qaeda and Bin Laden, and open dialog with their
associates, to understand what their grievances are and the US role (real or
perceived) in them. Learn from this: is there a growing perception that the
US is the world's bully -- to what extent is this perception justified. If
not, learn to do a better job explaining US perception of its interests and
policies to defuse this perception of our being a bully. If there is
justification, learn how we should modify our perceptions and policies so as
to not be a bully and reassume our position as one of the 'good guys' in the
world.
Of course, doing both 3 and 4 together would be best.
We do need leadership at this time. None of this will satisfy the blood lust
and impatience that infuses so many Americans right now...but there are many
Americans who would see the wisdom of these approaches, especially if the
president were to lead in these directions. The danger of the blind military
responses that are now being threatened is that they will create even more
of a problem than we already have, and this is why thoughtful people are
concerned. The way of blood lust and impatience plays right into the hands
of those who would like to see the US belittled and weakened. Our seeming
policies and presidential pronouncements are making Bin Laden into a greater
and more powerful antagonist than even he might have hoped for.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
> Richard Brodie
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 12:46 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Dawkins View
>
>
> Lawrence,
>
> I'm listening. Shoot.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
> Lawrence DeBivort
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 8:56 AM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: Dawkins View
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> > I haven't heard anyone coming out in favor of vicious spirals of endless
> > violent retaliation. What do you want to do, leave them alone
> to take over
> > the whole Middle East and build a nuclear arsenal?
>
> Richard, surely you can think of third and forth alternatives to 'leaving
> them alone' or a military attack on Afghanistan, no?
>
> Lawrence
>
>
> ===============================================================
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>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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