Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA07183 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:51:40 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:55:51 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Song of Myself Message-ID: <3B897E77.19583.A46D3B@localhost> In-reply-to: <F32tXsL1c00goZolmRB00012ace@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-bounces@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 26 Aug 2001, at 23:42, Scott Chase wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: Song of Myself
> >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:43:27 -0500
> >
> >On 26 Aug 2001, at 11:56, Dace wrote:
> >
> > > From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > >
> > > > > Sheldrake is suggesting that the form of an organism somehow
> > > > > stays with the present, even when its materialization has long
> > > > > since vanished. This is simply a roundabout way of saying
> > > > > that if memory is real, it's holistic, not particulate.
> > > > >
> > > > And this idea of an ethereal or astral memory, in the complete
> > > > and utter absence of any site or mechanism for same, is itself
> > > > an anthromorphization and a (very old) mystically driven error.
> > > > Platonic Forms, 'somehow' hovering in the celestial spheres, to
> > > > inform the mundane world, long after their dead carriers have
> > > > dissolved away; it makes for okay greek literature, and even
> > > > possesses a seductive touch of poesy, but scientific and
> > > > empirically veridical, it is not.
> > >
> > > Platonic Forms don't evolve. They transcend time altogether.
> > > Sheldrake criticizes Goodwin on the grounds that his "generative
> > > equations" are unaffected by the emergence or extinction of the
> > > species whose forms they describe.
> > >
> >Whether a species of starfish is dead or alive, five arms
> >mathematically works best from a geometric stability point of view,
> >just as five legs does for rolling chairs.
> > >
> > > In the morphic model, there's no
> > > field until there's a species in resonance with its past. As the
> > > species evolves, its form changes. Thus what it resonates with
> > > also changes. Fields evolve right along with the organisms they
> > > govern.
> > >
> >This would make the genetic evolutionary evolution of the organism
> >causally responsible for the changes in such a field, rendering the
> >very idea, much less the existence, of such a field Occamically
> >superfluous. Why doncha borrow one of those groovy field detectors
> >from the scientologists?
> >
> Didn't they "borrow" the skin galvanometer from Jung? He put it to
> good use in his complex theory at least IIRC. Just like the engram was
> yanked from Semon.
>
> [grumble, snort, chortle]
>
(snicker)
>
> These days neuroimaging technology [PET and fMRI] has replaced
> archaic devices such as galvanometers as a means of studying mental
> states.
>
And they're actually of some use; imag(in)e that!
>
> (snip)
> >
> > > The parts of a
> > > machine are manufactured separately and then placed together. Its
> > > form is imposed onto it, rather than arising intrinsically, and is
> > > separable from the matter that comprises it.
> > >
> >That's because we build it. We also build genetically engineered
> >living organisms. And your point is?
> >
> >
> Have you personally taken part in building any genetically engineered
> organisms? I haven't.
>
I personally haven't, but glowing monkeys and carotene-rich
tomatoes HAVE been built, and by humans; I was employing 'we'
in the homo sapiens sense.
>
> _________________________________________________________________ Get
> your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Aug 27 2001 - 04:56:22 BST