Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA11655 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:35:18 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.222.131] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Logic Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:32:45 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F269GxgelXDeqoMIOGC00000bd1@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2001 03:32:46.0064 (UTC) FILETIME=[47F78700:01C126CD] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Logic
>Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:18:30 -0500
>
>On 16 Aug 2001, at 22:59, Scott Chase wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > >Subject: Re: Logic
> > >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:52:52 -0500
> > >
> > >On 16 Aug 2001, at 20:48, Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: Dace <edace@earthlink.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > The meme for genetic determinism is nested
> > > > > > within the meme for deterministic thinking in general, which
> > > > > > is nested within the meme for nature-as-machine, which is
> > > > > > nested within the meme
> > > > for
> > > > > > anthropomorphosis. That is, we tend to project ourselves onto
> > > > > > nature.
> > > > In
> > > > > > modern times, this manifests in a projection of human
> > > > > > technology onto nature. The idea that nature has a
> > > > > > machine-like predictability has
> > > > served
> > > > > > to resurrect the ancient meme of "fate," which has since
> > > > > > manifested in
> > > > > terms
> > > > > > of genetics.
> > > > >
> > > > > << Very good point !!
> > > > > Mine exactly and the one which why I still doubt the
> > > > > absoluteness of genetic determinism according to the heritable
> > > > > aspect of the concept. It could be all a case of memetic- like
> > > > > nesting. Wade, I think, wrote once, Darwin dangerous idea would
> > > > > be just that we ought to think that his idea is the right way to
> > > > > follow. But Darwin 's idea came from out a human perspective (
> > > > > descriptive) and perhaps this not what Nature intented.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I've never tried to apply the morphic model to memes before.
> > > > > > This
> > > > effort
> > > > > is
> > > > > > certainly better than the post I fired off last night under
> > > > > > the heading "morphic memes." Definitely a work in progress.
> > > > >
> > > > > << My first steps in memetics were inspired by the notion of the
> > > > > morphic model. In a sense you can 1_ switch memes for morphic
> > > > > fields and vice versa and 2_ see memes as the neurological
> > > > > outcome of the working of morphic fields.
> > > > >
> > >Memes do not issue from the dead vibrations of long gone
> > >progenitors and travel down an ethereal or astral hall to inform the
> > >shape of progeny; they are semantic (meaningful) patterns which are
> > >communicated from others via showing, telling or writing, and only
> > >the third of these can come from the dead, and it does not possess
> > >resonant qualities, whatever they are, except insofar as writer and
> > >reader must share a common symbol system or code (language) which
> > >must be learned before it can be employed, and the carrier of the
> > >code must be both actionably efficacious (the writing of the
> > >transmitter) and perceptually registerable (the reading of the
> > >receiver).
> > > >
> > >
> > Not only can the dead communicate with us via their writings they can
> > show and tell too. Word has it that there are these new fangled things
> > called cassettes and videotapes where we can hear and see stuff from
> > people long after they have passed. With newer technologies such as CD
> > and DVD these communications from the dead will last much longer and
> > be much crisper. When instructional CD's/DVD's and documentary DVD's
> > really catch on, the knowledge imparted will last long after the
> > people responsible have departed and in a much higher quality format
> > which could last a while.
> >
>True enough; recorded showings and tellings are now an
>established fact, and have been for some time. It is interesting to
>note that they do not involve any additional symbolic complexity or
>abstraction on top of that required by showing and telling in person,
>as they are simply reproductions of in-person performance. In fact,
>with certain limited exceptions such as shorthand, once we pass
>through the levels of tools (physical mediation), language (verbal
>symbolic mediation), diagrams, schematics and musical notation
>(marked symbolic mediation) and the tool/sign synthesis known as
>text (marked symbols for verbal symbols), we've just about run the
>gamut (shorthand = marked symbols (abbreviations) for other
>marked symbols for verbal symbols).
>
>
Of course I was showing my non-fictional bias with my emphasis on
instructional stuff and documentaries in digital format. There is also audio
fiction read on CD now so those of us with CD's in our cars can listen to a
crisp reading of whatever. There's also music on CD (duh ;-) where long
departed artists can have influence on the musical tastes of future
generations and DVD movies where the stuff we are watching might well
outlast us (if DVD even manages to outlast us itself as a format).
Nonetheless, whatever the technology to come down the pike, future
generations may be influenced by what they see and hear from our generation
and those preceding us. Hopefully books and the printed word still hold
their ground.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Aug 17 2001 - 04:39:41 BST