Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA12975 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:35:37 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.143] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:32:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F160xfR7ivKwjyghlYm00003981@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2001 06:32:58.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B887760:01C12166] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.EDU.AU>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution
>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:49:08 +1000
>
>On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 02:26 PM, Scott Chase wrote:
>
>>>From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.EDU.AU>
>>>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>>>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>>>Subject: Re: Logic + universal evolution
>>>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:53:34 +1000
>>>
>....
>>>Buffon's view of transmutation of species was a degenerational one -
>>>each species in a genus bar at most one was a degeneration from the
>>>"prime stock" or "primary stem" (premiere souche). His pupil and friend
>>>Lamarck applied a *generational* view to species transmutation, but
>>>because he thought it was an internal impulse or drive that caused it,
>>>he used the term "evolution", which Geoffroy, *his* pupil, carried on
>>>into the 19th century debates.
>>>
>>So Lamarck actually did utilize the word "evolution"? Can you square
>>this with what Richard Burkhardt says in his intro to Lamarck's
>>_Zoological Philosophy_ (1984. The University of Chicago Press.
>>Chicago.)? On page xxii Burkhardt writes:
>>
>>(bq) "Lamarck never used the word "evolution" to refer to the process
>>of the origin and successive transformation and development of organic
>>beings over time. Nor for that matter did he use the word
>>"transformism"." (eq)
>
>Hmmm. I thought he did.
>
Whew! After posting the above, I had second thoughts as to whether I misread
you. With all the he's and it's your passage could have been taken several
ways and my not being up to speed on the relations between Buffon, Lamarck,
and Geoffroy (which one...Etienne or Isidore?) did not help matters much. I
vaguely remember the form-function tension between one of the Geoffroy's and
that curmudgeon Cuvier. It's* almost as hard to keep up with as all that
begetting in the Bible.
*-"it" meaning historical connection
>
>I'll check my sources, but there's no reason to
>doubt that you (ie, Burckhardt) may be right about that. Perhaps it's
>one of those snide remarks thrown at transformists by Cuvier? I know
>it's in Lyell (or at least I recall it being in Lyell... my memory isn't
>as good as it should have been. Principles has been rereleased in
>facsimile by Chicago, I think - I'll see if I can find a copy of vol 2).
>
>Great. Now I have another thesis avoidance topic...
>
I wouldn't make it all that high a priority.
>
>>>...
>
>>>Pluralism rears its ugly head, but AFAICT MR need not apply. To quote
>>>Gould, the pluralistic hedonist, himself on this (from "Kropotkin was
>>>no crackpot" as found in _Bully for Brontosaurus_, 1992, paperback
>>>edition, W.W. Norton & Company, New York, p. 339):
>>
>>(bq) "I see no evidence for Teilhard's noosphere, for Capra's
>>California style of holism, for Sheldrake's morphic resonance"(eq)
>>
>>Has anybody spoke to the infamous 100th monkey phenomenon yet?
>>
>Well they have now, damn you :-) Do we *really* have to go through that?
>--
>
Well the more we struggle with the retelling of the retelling of the 100th
monkey, the easier it will become for everyone else to grasp, even those not
reading this list. If everybody on this list were to read extensively on the
100th monkey phenomenon, we could carve a mnemic groove deep enough that
future generations would pick up on the story without much effort at all.
They would be resonating with us via the collective memory storehouse.
Ecphory abounds.
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