Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA24477 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:39:39 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745F96@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: It's an ad, ad, ad world (does it ever end?) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:36:57 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Hi Philip,
I think at one level, about how fans react to whatever a celebrity does, is
perfectly reasonable. I don't know if anyone here has doen any
psychological work on fandom, but in my field some colleagues do a fair
amount of stuff on fandom. One of the interesting things is that the notion
of being a fanatic, is something people seem to displace onto others. Two
consistent things stand out in the seminars I've done with students on media
fandom. First, people seem to think there's a clear boundary between being
a "normal" fan of something, and being an obsessive weirdo; and second, they
are always a "normal" fan whilst others are the obsessive weirdos. The
latter point usually comes in relation to different kinds of fandom- so
motoracing fans think tennis fans are weird and vice versa.
So there's this strange tension between people thinking that there are
obsessive weirdos out there, but nobody thinking that the term weirdo
applies to them.
I'm not quite sure what advertisers are up to with things like Agassi's
razor-blades. Either, because endorsement is pretty effective generally,
they are just trying to milk it desperately, or they are exploiting the
weirdo in us all. The former shows a lack of imagination, the latter a lack
of ethics. I think advertisers are pushing lawyers for the most hated
profession spot. (Devil's Advocate was on UK TV the other night- boy, does
the person who wrote that hate lawyers or what!). Perhaps the worst of all
those lawyers who advertise on TV ('Are you a dumb clutz who falls over a
lot? Want to earn a living out of falling over a lot? So do We! Oops, I
mean, we care very deeply about personal injury claims....).
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Philip Jonkers
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 3:17 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: It's an ad, ad, ad world (does it ever end?)
>
>
> > The only point they made which is one of the few aspects of
> > advertising that works, and indeed may be the only genuine
> > memetic aspect of advertising is what marketers call
> > association, better known as endorsements. I don't have
> > any problem with notion, that we like to copy the famous,
> > successful etc. But, there are limitations. For all but
> > the stalkers of this world, celebrity endorsements I think
> > only really work in that celebrity's field of expertise- so
> > when Andre Agassi promotes Head tennis racquets, I see no
> > problem with people thinking 'he's good at tennis,
> > that's the racquet he uses, so if I use that racquet I'll be
> > good too'. But when Agassi starts promoting razors, coz he
> > shaves his head, I don't really think the majority
> > of people then go and buy razors on his say so.
>
> Hi Vincent, I know I'm lagging behind but please forgive me as
> I've been busy with applications and stuff.
>
> If you use a celebrity for advertisement campains you
> immediately draw the attention of the share of fans, groupies,
> admirers and what not, attributable to such a role model.
> To assume that men will go out and buy razor-blades offered
> by a tennis-idol seems ridiculous to the highest degree if
> you come to think about it in a rational way. But the effect
> on fans and the like, may be very different. You cannot expect
> people to act rational all of the time, hard nosed fans
> certainly do not consistently operate that way.
> Especially kids who frequently seem to be craving for
> role-models or idols may be willing to do whatever is in their
> power to be like their heroes.
>
> It's funny you come to mention the telly-ad by Agassi. I happen
> to know that Agassi has a higher than average beard-growth rate.
> You can almost watch his beard grow on TV during an extensive
> tennis match! So, after all, in this particular case there is
> an rationale to associate Agassi with shaving and for using
> him in a razor ad. I don't know the precise words, but when
> asked - in the ad - if he's a demanding kind of guy
> (regarding shaving) he vindicates his presence in the ad by
> replying with `extremely'. You have to give credit to the
> resourcefulness of the makers of this ad.
>
> Advertising is a quintessential memetic arms-race indeed!
>
> Philip Jonkers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Another reasonable advertising idea, which you point to here, is
> > raising
> > brand awareness. When people are looking for a product, and don't
> > necessarily have a particular preference, then awareness of a brand
> > can
> > help. My issue with this, based on the article you posted, is that if
> > awareness-raising was such a powerful tool, then how come TV, billboards
> > and
> > newspapers and so on are not enough for these people that we now have
> > to
> > have ads on everything?
> >
> > Maybe there's something memetic about the increasing ubiquity of
> > advertising- it's extent outweighs its (demonstrable) impact so what's
> > driving its spread?
> >
> > Vincent
> >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Wade T.Smith
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2001 5:25 pm
> > > To: Memetics Discussion List
> > > Subject: RE: It's an ad, ad, ad world
> > >
> > > Hi Vincent Campbell -
> > >
> > > >Of course all these desperate efforts from advertisers to gain our
> > > attention
> > > >is simply more evidence that advertising doesn't work the way they'd
> > like
> > > to
> > > >believe it does.
> > >
> > > Not that it don't work at all- simply knowing that something new is
> > > available for a need that the old versions and brands didn't fill too
> >
> > > well is why I find myself trying recently introduced and advertised
> > > things.
> > >
> > > (Of course, I also have, and have always had, thanks be to my sainted
> >
> > > mum, who many years ago warned me of the evils of advertising, a
> > strict
> > > rule to boycott, in my individual and paltry way, any product whose
> > > advertising is false, ugly, or annoying. Plus, due to sheer economic
> >
> > > reasons, I tend to purchase generics....)
> > >
> > > Thus, if I'm dissatisfied with the performance of a product, I'm in
> > > 'search' mode for a replacement, and at this point, advertising will
> >
> > > affect me. And, tangentially, if I'm happy with a product, I might try
> > a
> > > variation of it- like a new version of a favorite cereal. But, in
> > almost
> > > all instances, I'm in a 'search' mode for these items.
> > >
> > > And once found and enjoyed, a product becomes an object of loyalty. I
> >
> > > will look very carefully for a bottle of Moxie in a store, a product
> >
> > > which, in this day, has no advertising at all. And when I smoked
> > > cigarettes, I waded through (yeah, I use that word as a non-name
> > > sometimes too...) a myriad of cigarette advertising every minute of
> > every
> > > day, oblivious to all of them, because I would walk a mile for a
> > Camel.
> > >
> > > All of this meandering, while attempting to underscore Vincent's
> > point,
> > > may also point out that perhaps I am not your typical consumer.
> > >
> > > - Wade
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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