Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA12854 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:48:23 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:51:14 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The Guardian on Information Message-ID: <3B34ACE2.5021.16BE25@localhost> In-reply-to: <000f01c0fc17$7742fca0$98a3bed4@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 23 Jun 2001, at 21:04, Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 5:06 AM
> Subject: Re: The Guardian on Information
>
>
> > On 22 Jun 2001, at 20:48, Robin Faichney wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 10:28:33AM -0400, Wade T.Smith wrote:
> > > > On 06/21/01 14:53, Robin Faichney said this-
> > > Think "structure". Information theory in physics is the treatment
> > > of structure as an element in itself.
> Hi Joe,
> You wrote,
> > What is necessary is matter and energy in pattern, structure or
> > configuration. Awarenesses become informed concerning such
> > patterns, structures or configurations, and their attributes, via
> > perception and/or cognition. Information cannot precede awareness,
> > for it is necessary for an awareness to become informed concerning a
> > configuration, for information, a communication of configuration to
> > an awareness via perception, to exist.
>
> << Wouldn 't it than not be better to use ' experience ' instead of
> information or structure !? Experience includes a sort of information
> which precedes awareness. If we take Nature as an example, before we
> ever existed Nature experien- ced a great deal. That is indeed no
> information as you suggested because it is indeed necessary that
> anyone did observed it. Awareness, IMO, seems to come ' after '
> experience. First experience than awareness through the trial and
> error of that experience.
>
Nope. Self-conscious awareness is not necessary to be
consciously aware; it is a recursive emergent evolution of this more
primal ability. Animals experienced before we did, and what they
perceptually experienced informed them as to the character of their
environs, information which was necessary for them to respond to
their environs in mainly instinctually delineated ways. We, who are
self-consciously aware, have the additional ability to explicitly
reflect upon our experience, and upon our role as experiencers,
and upon the perceptual means through which our experience
reaches us, and of all of these in systemic interrelation. This
allows us to transcend both instinct and simple stimulus-response
conjunctions and consider a myriad of alternatives leading to
differing possible future outcomes which we can imaginatively
investigate prior to our choice between them.
>
> Best,
>
> Kenneth
>
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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