Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id NAA10402 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:06:32 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745F2F@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: memetics-digest V1 #686 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:25:03 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
The trouble is that people who believe themselves to be martyrs are rarely
defined that way by others- do most Americans tink of Tim McVeigh as a
martyr (which is clearly why he was happy to be executed)? True martyrs are
those who die in an apparently selfless manner- they are thinking of others
not themselves, and thus martyrdom is bestowed upon them by their survivors
(e.g. Joan of Arc I suppose).
Is martyrdom copied/imitated? Surely it would need to be in order to be
memetic.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: FamilyFirm@aol.com
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 8:29 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #686
>
> This line of thought considering martyrdom makes me wonder about what we
> might think of as the symbiotic relationships between emotional states
> with
> memeplexes. For instance certain categories of memes may have evolved in
> the
> context of triggering certain emotional states that serve the memes'
> competition for mind space. The extreme emotional state of a martyr is
> probably consciously expereinced in the context of a community (either
> physical or metaphysical) of which the martyr is a part. My guess is that
> it
> taps in to some hardwiring that is associated with parental protection of
> offspring, even at their own expense. The parents sense of "self" is
> extended
> to the offspring so that self destruction to insure the survival of the
> offspring works. It could be that this parental programing around this
> extended sense of self is expanded to a even larger sense of self that is
> associated with a community with which they profoundly identify. And
> superordinant to the biology all of this is actually inservice to
> preservation of memeplexes.
>
> This line of thought also lead me to wonder is there is a category of
> memes
> that might be considered "memeplex busters". Something akin to lightening
>
> that starts forest fires that are a part of an evolving biome.
>
> Joe
>
>
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