Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA26887 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:32:27 +0100 From: <joedees@bellsouth.net> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:35:03 -0500 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Determinism Message-ID: <3AD60367.20863.5AD028@localhost> In-reply-to: <F37Z2K4xDh9vXsFFsAi000021e6@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On 12 Apr 2001, at 12:36, Scott Chase wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: Determinism
> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:18:27 -0500
> >
> >On 11 Apr 2001, at 16:22, Robin Faichney wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 02:30:11PM +0100, Chris Taylor wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'm interested in how we generate our choice - competing
> > > > 'solutions' will often be ranked by a closer evaluation (i.e. a
> > > > deeper comparison with relevant stuff), but where that does not
> > > > occur, for example in a snap decision, or with poor knowledge
> > > > (the classic casket choice, most famously in The Merchant of
> > > > Venice, for example), do we just have a pseudorandom number
> > > > generator to toss a coin? Is it a case of which memes have most
> > > > recently been active (had a nice dream about a forest, therefore
> > > > picked a green thing over a turquoise thing, had a nice dream
> > > > about the sea, therefore vice versa - the one I think Dennet
> > > > would go for).
> > >
> > > Seems to me in the vast majority of cases choices are not evenly
> > > weighted. What makes the difference is subjective probability:
> > > what I think is most likely to be true, or to be optimal. Then
> > > there's the distinction between what I think likely to be really
> > > true, or good, on one hand, and what I'd like to be true, or to
> > > do, on the other. And sometimes, of course, I actually toss a
> > > coin. This stuff is so complex and so varied that it's really
> > > difficult to generalise about.
> > >
> >And very difficult to consider superdetermined from the instant the
> >Big Bang bung.
> > >
> > > But I'm sceptical of the utility of the pseudorandom number
> > > generator concept. The concept of randomness, as most often used,
> > > is a subjective one. Not "these events have no pattern", but
> > > "these events have no interesting pattern". That's what's meant
> > > when it's said that genetic mutation is random: in evolutionary
> > > terms, it is, but individual cases often have clear causes, and
> > > without wanting to get into areas I've recently been avoiding, we
> > > might suppose that all cases are actually caused -- it's just that
> > > the causes are not generally of interest to evolutionary
> > > biologists.
> > >
> >It is not the mutation which is nonrandom, but the selection.
> >
> I'm not sure mutation is all that random. Mutation is non-directed.
> Some mutations could be more likely than others. My vague recollection
> is that a difference exists betwen transitions and transversions and
> on a different front that certain parts of a genome could be hotter
> spots than others. Still, even if not quite random, mutation is not
> directed towards any predetermined end, especially of adaptive
> significance.
>
Yes, it is more likely that six-toed people will be born than six-
headed ones, partly because the latter would not survive to
reproduce (at least not with me! ;~)), but also partly because of
morphological constraints.
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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