Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA26362 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:14:46 +0100 Message-ID: <00ce01c0c38c$b2191580$5eaefea9@rcn.com> From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <F1432ZhCl8aii08N8yx00006333@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Determinism Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:11:01 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Determinism
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com>
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> >Subject: Re: Determinism
> >Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:08:32 -0400
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com>
> >To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:48 PM
> >Subject: Re: Determinism
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
> > > >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > >Subject: Re: Determinism
> > > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:24:11 -0500
> > > >
> > > >On 11 Apr 2001, at 12:31, Aaron Agassi wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
> > > > > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:18 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Determinism
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 12:45:41AM -0500, joedees@bellsouth.net
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only way two scenarios can be absolutely identical is if
> >you
> > > > > > > > look at one scenario twice. In which case, the same
decision
> > > > > > > > would be made.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I hope you don't think that's a glib or tricksy answer. I
> >mean
> > > > > > > > it absolutely seriously. If everything is the same, then
> > > > > > > > everything will be the same.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But the same situation cannot ever recur; even memory of the
> >first
> > > > > > > would be too much, as would the simple molecular changes of
> > > > > > > ourselves and our environs. The impossible is an illegitimate
> > > > > > > hypothetical.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you'd been reading to understand, rather than skimming to
> >argue,
> > > > > > you'd have seen that's exactly what I meant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > But he assumes that limits to simulation must also then apply to
> > > > > initial reality!
> > > > >
> > > >No, I'm saying that since nonrepeatable situations (such as
> > > >historical ones repeated absolutely exactly) cannot by definition be
> > > >rerun, it is a logically misplaced article of faith to assume any
> > > >result whatsoever from such impossible trials.
> > > >
> > > If you were to rewind the tape of history (or an historical process
like
> > > evolution) and push play,
> >
> >Which is an impossible, but never the less legitimate, hypothetical.
> >
> >
> > >who's to say you'd get the same result twice?
> >
> >But it is one hypothesis. And what's the alternative? Nothing less than
the
> >rejection of causality as universal.
> >
> >
> So you think that if the tape was rewound, everything would happen in
> *EXACTLY* the same manner?
>
> Perhap you are conflating idiographic science (historical disciplines
> dealing with unique events) with nomothetic science (disciplines dealing
> with repeatable events).
>
Perhaps I only recognize the distinction, Epistemologically.
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