Re: The Demise of a Meme

From: Kenneth Van Oost (Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be)
Date: Fri Apr 06 2001 - 21:08:01 BST

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
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    Subject: Re: The Demise of a Meme
    Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 22:08:01 +0200
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Douglas Brooker <dbrooker@clara.co.uk>
    To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:30 AM
    Subject: RE: The Demise of a Meme

    >
    > > Arbitrary = without reference to the state or process of affairs
    > > purportedly represented. Thus, onomotopoeic words (such as
    > > 'hiss' for the sound a snake makes) are not arbitrary or by mutual
    > > convention, since the sound of the term resembles the sound made
    > > by the referent, while the name 'snake' to refer to the no-legged
    > > critter that so hisses is an arbitrary term, agreed upon by mutual
    > > convention; we could just as well call snakes 'egbert's', if we all
    > > agreed to..
    >
    > This is ok so long as you keep within the boundaries of the system -
    > the English language. But do all languages follow this pattern for the
    > sound a snake makes? If they don't, which is likely (just an opinion)
    > why have generations of English speakers chosen to use a word that is
    > onomotopoeic?

    << Considering the Dutch language, no...I don 't recall any patterns that
    would follow this concept as for the word ' hiss ' that is.
    But on the other hand, we did and still use what you can consider slang,
    or flash, jargon, gibberish, lingo, double Dutch ( what 's in a name, he
    !?).
    We have names for animals in our language that refers to the sound
    they make, like " oehoe ", that is a owl or " karekiet " that is a kind of
    bird,
    or jif- jaf, a kind of bird etc.
    But for the sound that a snake makes, we don 't use another word than
    snake. That is in general, if we put the word in context we use the exact
    term, we give the snake a name....boa, anaconda, viper etc.
    For the word " hiss " there is no translation....

    > I haven't looked up the etymology of snake, but the slightly hissing
    > sound of 'SN' evokes an echo of an hiss. This is only to suggest that
    > what appears arbitrary today may not always have been so. It's
    > apparent arbitrariness may be derived from a collective forgetfulness
    > of the word's origin.

    Etymological the word snake, or " slang " in Dutch comes from to swing,
    from to dangle, from to wind, from to move in twisted ways,...the ways
    by which a snake moves.

    Best,

    Kenneth

    ( I am, because we are)

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