Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id WAA15962 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:58:21 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.151] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: it can't happen here.... Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 17:54:03 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F9271mrvoGdKO8FNpyL000037a2@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2001 21:54:04.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[44AD67B0:01C0BAF6] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: it can't happen here....
>Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:34:11 +0100
>
>On Sat, Mar 31, 2001 at 12:42:19PM -0500, Scott Chase wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I missed a couple of messages there, but I can tell you the
>Freudian/
> > > > >Adlerian/Jungian approach, generally refered to as dynamic
> > >psychotherapy
> > > > >or psychodynamic therapy, is alive and well in the UK.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Watered down Nietzsche....all of it. Well, Fritz did have an impact,
> > >which
> > > > at least Jung would more openly acknowledge than Freud anyway.
> > >
> > >Did Nietzche say anything about the unconscious?
> > >
> > >
> > Some of his ideas are related to the way others have explored the
>concept of
> > the unconscious in later works...
>
>Thanks a lot, Scott, very interesting. I knew about Groddeck -- I have The
>Book of the It on my shelves. But he got "it" from Nietzche! Fascinating!
>
>
Somehow the "it" became the "id". Perhaps a matter of translation resulting
in a neologism?
What's Groddeck's book like? Was his meaning very different from Freud's?
From reading Ellenberger's book and also some notes in the intro to my copy
of Freud's _The Ego and the Id_, I'm fairly sure some connection exists
which bridges the thought of Freud, Groddeck, and Nietzche wrt the "id/it".
I think sublimination may have been a Nietzschean concept. THere's also a
consideration for where Schopenhauer and others fit in, but this history of
philosophy stuff starts getting out of my league pretty fast. Ellenberger
has been a fascinating read, but the subtilities of history and philosophy
are quite hard to keep in line.
From recent reading of Henri Ellenberger's book (_Discovery of the
Unconscious_), I have had reinforced the possible connection between
Nietzsche's Apollo and Dionysus archetypes and Freud's reality principle
versus pleasure principle. IIRC Nietzsche based his dichotomy on
Schopenhauer's representation versus will dichotomy. This, of course echoes
Kant, but as descent with some modification on Schopenhauer's part.
Interesting Schopenhauer utilized the Vedas or Upanishads, which might be
more in your league than mine. I picked up on the veil of Maya notion from
Schopenhauer.
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