Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA11510 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:35:59 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [209.240.221.62] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: The Demise of a Meme Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:31:50 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F203ajWSQ2hExHA3jE200019ee2@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2001 06:31:50.0681 (UTC) FILETIME=[44D6B890:01C0B9AC] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: The Demise of a Meme
>Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:48:57 +0100
>
>On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 01:03:15PM +0100, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> >
> > <That "processes by which cultural information is transmitted" bit
> > is
> > > rubbish. At the most fundamental level, the processes are very
>simple,
> > > and are roughly similar for all memes, religious, scientific or
>whatever.
> > > If you want to know why people are susceptible to irrational beliefs,
>on
> > > the other hand, the answer lies in psychology, not memetics. But then
> > > psychology wouldn't give you such scope to display your prejudice,
> > > would it?>
> > >
> > The processes are very simple and similar are they- how do you know?
> > Isn't that what memetics is about, exploring the processes of cultural
> > transmission, trying to identify them. That's what I think it's about,
> > perhaps that's where our disagreements have their roots.
>
>I don't particularly believe in memetics as a science, and I consequently
>don't care much what those who do, think it's about. I'm with Dennett in
>seeing it as being primarily of philosophical interest.
>
>I said "at the most fundamental level". What we have is transmission of
>information from one brain to another via behaviour and artefacts. It
>really is that simple -- if you disagree, please explain why.
>
> > Irrational beliefs
> > are a good place to start because we know that people don't believe them
> > because they are genuinely true-
>
>Some beliefs are held because most other people around hold them,
>and it's easier socially just to fit in, rather than question them.
>There are doubtless many other "bad" reasons to hold beliefs. Why you
>think this is better tackled by looking at the transmission of cultural
>information, than by psychology, defeats me.
>
> > not in the why of those beliefs which, of
> > course, is a question for psychology- but in the how of transmission
>from
> > person to person, and the why of particular beliefs over others.
>
>The "how of transmission" I described above. I can't imagine why you
>think the "why of particular beliefs over others" is a matter for memetics
>rather than psychology.
>
> > In other
> > words, given two equally false beliefs, why does one become a global
>belief,
> > and the other a local or even idiosyncratic one?
>
>That's for psychology, social anthropology, etc. to answer. The
>transmission of the information is a "no-brainer". The question is,
>why does it take root in the individual brain.
>
>Regarding all that followed in this message, sometimes the baiting of the
>rabidly anti-religious just gets unbearably tedious, like here and now,
>which is why I'm dropping it. You're welcome to any consequent feeling
>of victory. You may even crow a little, and I probably won't bother to
>respond. For various obvious reasons, I think we'd do better to focus
>more closely on memetics.
>
>
I'd chime in with the distinction betwen being rabidly anti-religious and
being non-religious if I thought it wouldn't fan the flames even more.
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