Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA14969 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:23:24 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C99@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: fitness and stability Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:22:52 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>>Robin Faichney:
> >>The difference between living and non-living entities is that, with
> life,
> >>we have stable items of information, as opposed to mere matter.
>
<Scratching at definitions yet again, it would appear that with
life, what
> we _don't_ have is stability, but rather the ability to fit, be maleable.>
>
It strikes me that there are two elements to this question of
fitness and stability. One is the actual relevance of the phrase 'survival
of the fittest' in the first place, whoever coined it, as it is actually
tautological- what survives that is not fit and vice versa? What is the
principle behind the use of that phrase that one is trying to invoke? (in
other words what started this thread?)
The second element is a question of time, and what constitutes a
significant/legitimate period of relative stability. If one acknowledges a
lack of absolute stability, what is the importance of any period of relative
stability, however that is defined?
It would seem reasonable to suggest that for biology, environmental
change generally occurs at a slow enough rate to enable some organisms to
remain virtually unchanged for long periods of time (e.g. bacteria in
ice-packs etc.), and allow some organisms to have long periods between
generations- surely this couldn't happen if environments changed very
rapidly and in ways that couldn't be dealt with by behavioural changes in
organisms.
But with culture, and memes if they exist, the parameters of
environment are more incohate at the moment to be able to judge what
constitutes stability. It seems to me perfectly correct to talk about
environmental fitness of memes, but what factors constitute environmental
pressures on memes, IMHO, seems much more difficult at this stage anyway to
pin down. This is particularly the case for things like popular phrases,
whether mis-remembered or not, which whilst undoubtedly present are more
difficult to discuss in terms of the factors that produced them as
phenomena. Saying they were/are environmentally fit is descriptive not
explanatory.
Anyway, there's my tuppence worth.
Vincent
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