Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA07041 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:17:34 GMT Message-ID: <002a01c099ec$b0ee1b20$a300bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <002b01c099a3$1abeba40$0d0fbed4@default> <3A8FAB9E.16588.104052@localhost> Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:51:46 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Ok Joe, I go back to the drawingboard !!
----- Original Message -----
From: <joedees@bellsouth.net>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
> On 18 Feb 2001, at 10:57, joedees@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> > On 18 Feb 2001, at 13:04, Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mark Mills <mmills@htcomp.net>
> > >
> > >
> > > > At 10:49 AM 2/17/01 -0800, you wrote:
> > > > >But the idea of a memetic germ line is still a problem. Memory
> > > > >organization does not pass directly from person to person, while
> > > > >genes and chromosomes do pass directly from parent to child.
> > > > Maybe the term 'ontogenetic replicator' would make more sense?
> > > > That's the model I'm suggesting. Once ontogeny starts, the
> > > > organism begins memorizing. The memory structures that can be
> > > > replicated are memes. Consider the notion of an 'object-oriented
> > > > database' with multiple levels of organization and the ability to
> > > > bootstrap itself.
> > > > That's the model I have in mind. An object-oriented
> > > > datastructure
> > > > that builds itself. The fact that cellular replication uses source
> > > > DNA does and memetics uses sources itself does not change the
> > > > parallel nature of the activity. I think the recent publication of
> > > > human genome findings supports this objected oriented,
> > > > bootstrapping datastructure concept. Both memes and genes use it.
> > > > The difference is their substrates.
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > >
> > > Same argument here for you as for Bill. Your ontogenetic replicator
> > > concept seems to be following the lines of what I see as the fractal
> > > structure of evolution....(L )amarckain/ (D )arwinian...and so
> > > on...L/ D/ L / D/... Strange though, that having lesser genes than
> > > expected had to come to this...but I like it !! Maybe I do not have
> > > to stop thinking stuff like this after all...
> > >
> > Actually, what Mark is describing sounds a whole lot like
> > autopoetic theory (AUTOPOEISIS AND COGNITION: THE
> > REALIZATION OF THE LIVING, Maturana & Varela, 1980;
> > PRINCIPLES OF BIOLOGICAL AUTONOMY, Varela, 1979).
> Oh, I forgot to mention; autopoetic theory is Darwinian, not
> Lamarckian.
> >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Kenneth
> > >
> > > ( I am, because we are) back on track
> > >
> > >
> > > =============================================================== This
> > > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
> > > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
> > > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
> > > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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