Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution

From: Chris Taylor (Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk)
Date: Thu Feb 15 2001 - 12:45:20 GMT

  • Next message: Wade T.Smith: "Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution"

    Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA25013 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:47:23 GMT
    Message-ID: <3A8BCF60.DA1A5D5E@bioinf.man.ac.uk>
    Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:45:20 +0000
    From: Chris Taylor <Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk>
    Organization: University of Manchester
    X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
    X-Accept-Language: en
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject: Re: Darwinian evolution vs memetic evolution
    References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745C70@inchna.stir.ac.uk>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
    Precedence: bulk
    Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    

    > Isn't it true that the last line is 'for the sake of...'?

    Err... er... hmm. Dunno. Obviously I didn't think so...

    Anyway, back to the plot:

    > The problem is what are the major aspects of the cultural environment that
    > create selection pressures for memes ... how on earth do we identify why
    > 'play it again, sam' prospers rather than the original line?

    Because (I think) there is an issue of a sort of compatibility. I would
    think that:

    1) The fitter versions of these memes in some sense resemble more
    closely something generic about what is already resident in the mind in
    which they undergo their process of selection. Play it again Sam is more
    compatible with our idea about the 'cool' lines 'cool' people utter
    (effectively in this instance there has been a group rewriting of the
    script to give the major character a major, punchy line).

    2) This is a classic meme because it is fairly self sufficient. Even
    without knowledge of Bogart or the film it implies a whole scenario to
    most of us. A guy who is self-assured, who likes something enought to
    want to hear it again but isn't overly excited/happy. There's a lot in
    there, and yet only the most generic cultural features are exploited.
    The point of a good meme in *this* sense is to be small, info packed and
    self-sufficient (given simple culture-environs assumptions, kind of like
    minimal growth media). "You feeling lucky punk?" is another (although
    less used because of its threatening nature) again it contains much in a
    little space, and makes few assumptions about prior knowledge because it
    exploits what is generic about our culture. You don't have to have even
    heard of Dirty Harry, you could just assume its something like that.

    These sorts of memes are more like viruses in that they have almost
    nothing to them (compare, say, Catholicism or elephants), yet because
    they are fine tuned to their environment, they do very well. Hook lines
    in pop song choruses are another (you rarely remember the relevant
    verses).

    This is the bottom of the meme size scale though, and unfortunately the
    focus of most pop memetics. Higher order structures should not be
    ignored (organisms, ecosystems).

    Time I stopped warbling, Chris.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Chris Taylor (chris@bioinf.man.ac.uk)
     http://bioinf.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 15 2001 - 12:49:26 GMT