Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA20028 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 04:33:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [209.240.220.159] From: "Scott Chase" <ecphoric@hotmail.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: magnetic memetics Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 23:30:43 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F69WanaHJveIn6csjBd000015f1@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2001 04:30:44.0046 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC1B36E0:01C090BE] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>From: <LJayson@aol.com>
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: magnetic memetics
>Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:15:31 EST
>
> >Subj: Re: magnetic memetics
> >Date: 1/27/2001 12:13:32 AM Pacific Standard Time
> >From: ecphoric@hotmail.com (Scott Chase)
> >Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
> >Reply-to: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >
>
> > >I thought this was an interesting quote because of its
> > >memetic implications.
> > >
> > >"We always attract into our lives whatever we think about most,
> > >believe in most strongly, expect on the deepest level, and
> > >imagine most vividly."
> > >
> > > - Shakti Gawain
>
> >Len:
> >I have no clue as to what your references to Mesmer, Ellenberg or
> >the "unconscious" have to do with my e-mail message.
>
> >Scott:
> >The sway of imagination and suggestion and the rapport between
> >people may be more important than "animal magnetism". It's
> >amazing how people can get caught in a fervor.
> >
> >Len:
> >I was remiss in not elucidating what I meant by "magnetic
> >memetics." For that I apologize; it had absolutely zero
> >reference to "animal magnetism."
> >
> >Please let me explain the thrust of my post. In my study of
> >memetics, I have noticed an empahsis on individuals absorbing
> >memes from their culture, consequently becoming socialized
> >and sharing neuro-typical ideas with others. To counteract what
> >I believe to be an over-emphasis of outside meme forces
> >filling-up empty craniums, I believe that we should give greater
> >credence to the natural propensity of each individual to pick and
> >choose from the culture "buffet" of memes that which best suits
> >him---based on his genetics, physical brain characteristics, and
> >environment. Within any cultural subset, individual differences
> >are vast.
> >
> >My use of the word *magnetic* referred to Gawain's quote: -- "We
> >always *attract* into our lives whatever we think about most, believe
> >in most strongly, expect on the deepest level, and imagine most vividly."
> >
> >Most of us would agree that any additional memes accepted into our
> >brains are largely dependent on the memeplexes already in place.
> >Therein lies a powerful concept, pointing out that each human brain is
> >continually shaped and developed by new memes, that are either
> >accepted or rejected, largely determined by the billions of memes
> >that have already "taken up housekeeping" in his skull.
> >
> >I hope this clears up the mystery of what I meant by "magnetic
> >memetics," nothing more serious than a metaphorical use of the
> >word---magnetic.
> >
> >I meant no profound lesson to be learned, this stuff is mostly old
> >hat to list members. I just felt that the Shakti Gawain quote neatly
> >expresses an important memetic truth.
>
>In a later post:
>Scott wrote:
>Mesmer's was a "meme" based on magnetism, so I didn't think
>co-opting your thread title was much of a stretch. Mesmerism,
>kooky as it may have been, fits subtlely somewhere into my
>individual "memeplex" (a portion of which is devoted to the
>history of psychoanalytical thought).
>
>Len:
>I agree that we would have to include Franz Mesmer as a forerunner
>of psychoanalytical thinking; although, perhaps due to my own lack of
>imagination, I fail to see a connection between psychoanalysis and
>memetics.
>
One could Apply "memetics" to a study of the historical phenomenon know as
psychoanalysis. It would be ineresting to see how Mesmer's "meme" caught and
lost steam, how hypnotism arose and how things like free and directed
association and dream work arose and partly last even to this day.
>
>Scott:
>I'm tempted to draw parallels with memetics, considering the
>tendency to posit hypothetical entities into which human behavior
>can be shoehorned in a Procrustean manner and also the old cult
>of personality tangent (D@D-not the role playing game either), but
>I'll save that for a rainy day.
>
>Len:
>What are the parallels that you see between psychoanalysis and
>memetics?
>
In a previous post I had pointed out some similarity between "memes" and
Jung's feeling tone complexes. We don't have complexes. Complexes have us by
the puppet strings, those pesky demons.
>
>What strict conformity, by ruthless or arbitrary means
>in a Procrustean sense, do you see operating in the realm of
>memetics, by proponents of this branch of knowledge?
>
Ummm, shoehorning behavior under the heading of "memes". Isn't it becoming a
"theory of mind"? And how about the tendency to Darwinize everything in
sight?
>
>Kindly expand on what you mean by "the old cult of personality
>tangent."
>
>
D&D...
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