Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA14875 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:51:15 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745BEC@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Now They're Singing a Different Song Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:50:04 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
If it's been discussed at length here, already, I won't pursue it, but I
doubt the argument's been entirely resolved. If so are there any published
works that outline what that resolution might be, that you know of?
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Robin Faichney
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 1:25 pm
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Now They're Singing a Different Song
>
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 12:40:11PM -0000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> > This does depend on whether one sees bird-song as memetic though.
>
> Obviously.
>
> > Some birds, e.g. cuckoos or cow birds, have their songs hard wired-
> they'd
> > have to otherwise they'd never be able to recognise another cuckoo after
> > they've left the nest. Others have very varied songs- there's that one
> that
> > attracts a mate by imitating lots of other animal noises (and alos
> copies
> > the sound of chainsaws of logging companies!) but I forget what that
> one's
> > called.
> >
> > That some species have variances between individuals, and geographical
> > varied communities sing different songs, doesn't have to be cultural.
> Song,
> > is undoubtedly a major factor in many birds' reproductive potential,
> which
> > suggests to me that there's a strong genetic leash in there somewhere.
> >
> > What needs to be shown, for a memetic component, is that variances in
> songs
> > between the varied communitites, is a product of imitation (or learning)
> > rather than inheritance or environment.
>
> And why do you assume that hasn't been done?
>
> This has been discussed before here ad nauseam. I'll leave it to
> those as yet un-nauseated to pursue it further.
>
> --
> Robin Faichney
> robin@reborntechnology.co.uk
>
> ===============================================================
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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