Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA05375 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:34:25 GMT Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:25:27 +0000 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Now They're Singing a Different Song Message-ID: <20010119132527.A1949@reborntechnology.co.uk> References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745BEB@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745BEB@inchna.stir.ac.uk>; from v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 12:40:11PM -0000 From: Robin Faichney <robin@reborntechnology.co.uk> Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 12:40:11PM -0000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
> This does depend on whether one sees bird-song as memetic though.
Obviously.
> Some birds, e.g. cuckoos or cow birds, have their songs hard wired- they'd
> have to otherwise they'd never be able to recognise another cuckoo after
> they've left the nest. Others have very varied songs- there's that one that
> attracts a mate by imitating lots of other animal noises (and alos copies
> the sound of chainsaws of logging companies!) but I forget what that one's
> called.
>
> That some species have variances between individuals, and geographical
> varied communities sing different songs, doesn't have to be cultural. Song,
> is undoubtedly a major factor in many birds' reproductive potential, which
> suggests to me that there's a strong genetic leash in there somewhere.
>
> What needs to be shown, for a memetic component, is that variances in songs
> between the varied communitites, is a product of imitation (or learning)
> rather than inheritance or environment.
And why do you assume that hasn't been done?
This has been discussed before here ad nauseam. I'll leave it to
those as yet un-nauseated to pursue it further.
-- Robin Faichney robin@reborntechnology.co.uk=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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