RE: Who knew genes could get mean?

From: Gatherer, D. (Derek) (D.Gatherer@organon.nhe.akzonobel.nl)
Date: Thu Dec 21 2000 - 07:55:14 GMT

  • Next message: Gatherer, D. (Derek): "RE: Who knew genes could get mean?"

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    From: "Gatherer, D. (Derek)" <D.Gatherer@organon.nhe.akzonobel.nl>
    To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    Subject: RE: Who knew genes could get mean?
    Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:55:14 +0100
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    Kenneth:
    Culture influences a gene's expression in the way it interacts with the
    environ-
    ment_that is, IMO genes for specific characteristics are expressed
    differently
    over time, that is due IMO again, to differences on a memetical level.

    Derek:
    I think you're using 'expression' in a non-standard way. A gene's
    expression is simply a description of how its protein-producing activity is
    turned on and off. Cellular phenotypes, and ultimately organismal ones, are
    of course ultimately dependent on expression of individual genes. It's like
    a historian (who?) once said, history is the sum of billions of biographies.
    Organisms could be argued to be the sum of several thousand patterns of gene
    expression. So I'm not sure how to interpret what you say above. If by
    'genes for specific characteristics are expressed differently
    over time ... due .... to differences on a memetical level', you mean that
    culture interferes with gene expression during the lifetime of an
    individual, then of course that is true. Alcohol dehydrogenase, for
    example, will be much less expressed in a teetotaller than in one who drinks
    14 pints a night.

    Kenneth:
    Like I said, by the way I am not a biologist, I think the genepool is in
    some
    extend ' linked/ connected ' with the memepool ( or our parents, culture,
    race,
    gender- pool.) Genes ' take ' additional/ associated info with them along
    the
    DNA- sequence.

    Derek:
    But why do you think that? It doesn't follow from cultural influences on
    gene expression. All those things happen within the lifetime of a single
    individual. You seem to want some kind of (memetic?) information to cross
    the germ-soma boundary. There's no way that _any_ information, memetic or
    genetic (eg. a la Ted Steele), crosses that boundary, I can assure you. You
    must stop thinking that, Kenneth. Really, you must.

    Kenneth:
    IMO, I do think that memetic factors have some activity on genes.
    All can be described back on the environment, I think I can agree on that,
    but somehow that influence has to be re- written in the gene.

    Derek:
    Why 'has to'? It has not. Genes have absolutely _nothing_ 'rewritten' in
    them, at all at any time by any mechanism. They change by mutation,
    duplication, deletion, and recombination (inversion and jumping included)
    only. That's it. It really is. You must get this idea out of your head.
    Sorry if I'm a little (or more than a little) overbearingly insistent about
    this, that's just the teacher in me coming out - I can't bear to see anybody
    labouring under a misapprehension.

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