Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA06473 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:32:10 GMT Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:28:34 -0800 Message-Id: <200012162328.PAA03474@mail13.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [209.240.221.96] From: "Scott Chase" <hemidactylus@my-deja.com> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Our human selves + To fly or not to fly? Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:15:35 -0500
>From: Vincent Wright <vmwusa_2000@yahoo.com>
>To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk, robin@reborntechnology.co.uk
>Subject: Re: Our human selves + To fly or not to fly?
>Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>
>Robin Faichney wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2000 at 01:07:25PM -0000, Vincent Campbell wrote:
>> > <I don't think it's anthropocentric to acknowledge that humans have
>> > certain attributes which set us apart as a species (culture, written
>> > language, volition, or whatever). Other attributes set other species and
>> > groups apart in their own right. I'm envious of those animals who can flap
>> > their limbs and fly, like birds and bats or those animals who can take their
>> > oxygen from water.>
>> >
>> > I agree completely with you here Scott.
>>
>> I'd be surprised if anyone didn't.
>>
>
>SURPRISE, Robin! :-)
>I, for one, don't agree with the being "envious... of...birds,,," part of
>Scott's statement.
>There is anecdotal evidence that most of us are not maximizing the suite of
>abilities/limbs we already have. If this is the case, what would lead one to
>believe that we would be better off if we could fly?
>
Well. I'd definitely need to get over my major fear of heights if I could fly, but I've always had one of those longings to be able to fly like an eagle. Many of my childhood dreams involved flying (shut up to any Freudians reading this). There was a story I read in elementary school where a kid grows wings and is able to fly. I can't remember much about the story (maybe I saw a film strip too), but it did grasp me back then. Too bad humans didn't branch off from a hexapodian mammal lineage which had one of its forelimbs modified for flying (like bats) while the other set became like our arms are now. Then we could fly and carry stuff too.
>
> Indeed, *would* we fly if we
>could?
>
I would.
>
> I think not as much as we might now imagine. I can just see the
>commercials now: " How to lose 5 pounds off your wings before summer!" Can you
>imagine the additional guilt of having unshapely or fat wings? Further, what of
>the security concerns if Scott could just fly - from place to place - without
>trace? And should more of us have Scott's ability to spread our wings and fly,
>what of air traffic control - especially for the multitudes? And let's not
>mention the prospects of getting caught in the path of an airplane! :-)
>
Well if humans (in the fanciful hexapodian mammal sense above) were migratory, we might be able to fly long distances and maybe would have never needed to invent airplanes. Then again, given our nature, we'd still like to fly on an airplane at faster speeds and get to our destinations much quicker. Human lungs would probably need to be different to handle the problem of getting oxygen at higher altitudes. Birds have an interesting pulmonary set-up which I can't describe well at this moment, but it helps them deal with the problem. IIRC they have bellows sacs and unidirectional air flow and some other adaptations diffentiating their pulmonary system from ours. Humans would confine flying to lower altitudes and away from airports.
I'm disgusted as it is with cleaning bird dung off my car, so if humans could fly...
>
> Not to be
>overly confrontational in my first post, but for me, until I consistently use the
>abilities already extant in me, I refuse to permit myself the luxury of pining
>away about non-existent abilities, whether in another species or purely
>imaginary. I am not dissatisfied enough with the limbs I have, to want more. -
>(Writing this post does remind me that I need to get up and do my soorya namaskar
>routine!)
>SoulSearcher77 (aka Vincent Wright)
>
>
Well, I'm also envious of the octopus. Imagine how much easier tasks such as bringing groceries into the house would be with many more limbs. Given my coordination ( or clumsy lack of) I'd probably run into major problems negotiating the uses of several more pairs of limbs.
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