Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id PAA08399 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:05:09 GMT From: "Richard Brodie" <richard@brodietech.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: virus: Psychological Profile of Hall Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 07:02:00 -0800 Message-ID: <NBBBIIDKHCMGAIPMFFPJCEAHFOAA.richard@brodietech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745B77@inchna.stir.ac.uk> Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
You agree with his rejection of belief transmission?
What are schools for?
Richard Brodie richard@brodietech.com www.liontales.com
-----Original Message-----
From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
Vincent Campbell
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 4:26 AM
To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
Subject: RE: virus: Psychological Profile of Hall
I don't quite know what you're going on about here Joe, not being a party to
the other list, but I like the term 'memebotic'.
Linking to Wade's posted piece about "elevation", it strikes me that there
are particular rituals that most religious doctrines require, that seem to
make people more vulnerable to this state of total, uncritical acceptance of
a particular belief regardless of its abject incorrrectness. Things like
prayer and meditation, but also things like dance (whirling dervishes,
native american rain dances etc.), fasting (I believe zen monks, in one
temple at least, have to undergo a long period without food or water, very
risky indeed) and, of course, drug taking in shamanic rituals.
I've been re-reading Derek's JEMIT article, and still generally agree with
his rejection of belief transmission, per se, but perhaps it's an indirect
result of doctrines that avow practices which in turn may be likely to
produce religiosity in those that undertake them.
It's such an, unfortunately, widespread feature of belief systems, it must
come from somewhere- and it's certainly not from any of them being "true".
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Joe E. Dees
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2000 1:39 am
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: virus: Psychological Profile of Hall
>
> Date sent: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 17:32:19 +0000
> From: "Everett E. ALLie" <specieup@safari.net>
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: Re: virus: Psychological Profile of Hall
> Send reply to: virus@lucifer.com
>
> > Hello, Joe, long time since I've heard from you. I hope you're
> well. As to Hall:
> > No, he is a very open friendly fellow, however, he's very insistent
> about what
> > existence really is. So far, no one has been able to show him is
> wrong.
> >
> No one can show a blind man what color is, either, and he is
> inclined to dismiss it as a delusion held by mistaken interlocuters,
> much as you dismiss GR and QM. At the same time, one can
> never convince fanatics whose self-concept, self-esteem and sense
> of self-worth have been irretrieveably bound up with the validity of a
> truth-claim concerning some obnoxious flatulence or other. You
> have reduced your now one-dimensional self to the status of the
> epistemic Jehovah's Witness of Hallianism, and that fact does not
> render it any more correct than does a JWs' belief validate their
> particular monomyth. There is no proof for Hallianism, and
> overwhelmingly preponderant experimental evidence, fulfilled
> predictions, and technological utility for the science it futilely
> attempts to supplant. You remind me of a fellow on the memetics
> list named Chris Lofting, whose hebephrenic avalanche of word
> salad and complete ignorance (in both senses of the word) of
> conclusively refuting counterexamples, combined with a
> fascistically relentless 'true believer' cheerfulness, sustains him in
> the quixotic crusade that all mind is composed of dichotomies and
> recursions; when presented with irreduceable trichotomies, such
> as the sign-signifier-signified structure of signification, the focus-
> field-fringe structure of conception/perception, or the amplitude-
> frequency-waveform structure of distally originating stimuli (in vision
> this translates to brightness-color-shape; in audition to loudness-
> pitch-timbre), he either refuses to acknowledge such flies in his
> ointment or ludicrously attempts to fit the square pegs of 'factual
> reality' into the round (w)hole of his faith/belief system, which
> comprises the totality of his comprehension and understanding. In
> other words, the precise behavior that you exhibit towards Hermit's
> unansweable and crushing objections to your beloved memeset.
> You are both slouching towards a bethlehem grail which neither of
> you shall never reach, for in each case it is a mirage of your
> zobically memebotic minds. However, in either case, you are both
> shining, sterling examples of the virulent, rather than symbiont,
> side of what both lists study. We are already vaccinated against
> you and your ilk; perhaps one day we shall be able to offer you
> cures for your respective infections that you would accept - you
> each steadfastly refuse the elixirs of logic, reason and rationality,
> and the bread of presented evidence.
> >
> > Everett
> >
> > Humanity's Ultimate Challenge
> > http://www.specieup.com (soon to be 'specieup.org' )
> >
> >
> > Joe E. Dees wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Brian Brotarlo" <brofont@iloilo.net>
> > > To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> > > Subject: virus: Psychological Profile of Hall
> > > Date sent: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:38:32 +0800
> > > Send reply to: virus@lucifer.com
> > >
> > > > I think it's time to look at the man behind Analytical
> Metaphysics. We've
> > > > given enough crap about the pseudo-science. Time to put the
> pigeon in its
> > > > hole.
> > > >
> > > > For Starters:
> > > >
> > > > Hall is:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Loner (image of mad doctor in his mad laboratory)
> > > > 2. A Little Paranoid (won't publish because he thinks he
> won't get a fair
> > > > reading)
> > > > 3. Desperate (Everette being his disciple)
> > > > 4. Prone to Hallucinations (Analytical Metaphysics, e.g.
> fundamental
> > > > existence or whatever.)
> > > >
> > > You forgot Megalomania, complete with delusions of
> omniscience.
> > > >
> > > > That's all so far... anybody wants to add more? I'm kindof
> leaning to
> > > > Para-Schizo, but isn't it too cliche already. Maybe somebody
> can be more
> > > > creative.
> > > >
> > > > But not to be too mean, just wants the rat out of his hole.
> You understand
> > > > the frustration, of course. Believe me, I can't wait till this hits
> > > > Newsweek. Or when I die, and Fundamental Existence will
> hold my hand, I'll
> > > > be in tears. He says, "Welcome home, former unbeliever.
> For you were part of
> > > > mainstream society and now you have come back."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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