Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA16660 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 25 Nov 2000 12:48:24 GMT From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: RE: Fwd: Thinking Like a Chimp Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:52:42 +1100 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIIECCCLAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <200011241948.LAA31562@mail10.bigmailbox.com> Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
There seem to be two gene-determined and so hard coded concepts -- object
and relationship.
all else is metaphors used to enable the identification of difference; to
distinguish object/relationship in context A from object/relationship in
context B as well as to generalise, to abstract, local identifications to
non-local and from those abstractions identify rules and so the grammar of
life.
This leads you into the realm of feedback sensitivity and looking behind
expressions to enable the prediction of events and so move from a reactive
state to a more proactive state. This shift enables quicker intergration of
text and context, quicker adaption. In reactive environments this
intergration takes a long time and once achieved can lead to
over-intergration where the slightest change in context is a direct threat
to all lifeforms who are intergrated with that context.
The proactive emphasis intergrates quickly but also allows for flexibility
and de-intergration if need be in that an internalised 'map' of the
structure of the context can be modified to deal with alternative contexts.
IOW we can spread across the planet rather than be 'stuck' in a local
ecological system that could die ... although we seem to have done this
rather well to the extant of threatening the planet!
best,
Chris.
------------------
Chris Lofting
websites:
http://www.eisa.net.au/~lofting
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Scott Chase
> Sent: Saturday, 25 November 2000 6:48
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: RE: Fwd: Thinking Like a Chimp
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Gatherer, D. (Derek)" <D.Gatherer@organon.nhe.akzonobel.nl>
> >To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> >Subject: RE: RE: Fwd: Thinking Like a Chimp
> >Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:39:34 +0100
> >Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >
> >Scott:
> >Jungian arguments about how a complex can take control over
> someone (akin to
> >
> >demonic possession) are similar to memetic puppet string arguments.
> >
> >Derek:
> >Indeed the case. With memeticists of the puppeteering school adding that
> >the string pulling entities are somehow contagious.
> >
> >
> My main concern is the strength of an idea or whether an idea can
> be said to have a person (as opposed to vice versa). There is the
> phenomenon of idee fixe (or even monomania amongst others) and
> maybe some trends are so nifty that people get really caught up
> in the fervor and it could be reasonably said that in certain
> instances ideas captivate someone to the degree that it's like
> being possessed. I don't know that this can be generalized. Other
> cases could involve an individual holding ideas at a distance.
> I'd also like to think of some sort of sorting "agency" (if not
> the fabled ego or Self...something) which is like a central
> executive. Memeticists could counter that this too is but a
> memeplex (perhaps a beneficial symbiont or whatever). As an
> aside, the -plex of memeplex harkens back to the same
> associationism that seems to underpin Jung's feeling toned
> complexes and perhaps many other similar notions.
>
> I can see that ideas can be contagious, but going overboard on
> pathogen analogies makes me wonder when an analogy ceases to
> inform thought and begins clouding reality. When one starts
> thinking in terms of viral coats and all that, though these sort
> of analogies could be fruitful, there's a time for sobriety too.
> Maybe some ideas could have a superficial "trojan horse" layer to
> them with the deadlier components hidden within to sit latently
> until later when they come to the forefront and attack a weakened
> host. This probably describes a very small portion of general
> human behavior though.
>
> The analogy between genes and ideas also has its allures, yet
> could have the drawback of clouding reality when taken too
> literally. Some of the organic memory theorists used similar
> heredity/memory analogies.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
> Before you buy.
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Nov 25 2000 - 12:49:56 GMT