Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA14511 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:01:27 GMT From: "Chris Lofting" <ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: RE: Fwd: Thinking Like a Chimp Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:05:40 +1100 Message-ID: <LPBBICPHCJJBPJGHGMCIIEBNCLAA.ddiamond@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <F150R1MwnnHxRKYblf800002295@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Scott Chase
> Sent: Friday, 24 November 2000 10:10
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: RE: Fwd: Thinking Like a Chimp
>
<snip>
> >You may need to read this (and my other posts) SLOWLY and MORE THAN ONCE
> >since I pack in a lot :-) even my websites cannot contain it all
> (2 x 5Mb)
> >:-)
> >
> >
> Aren't Jungians rather fond of the number four? There's some sort of
> symmetry deal related to the homeostatic Self archetype as represented
> symbolically by a mandala. Also wasn't Jung rather smitten with
> the notion
> of the Virgin Mary being brought as a fourth element alongside
> the Trinity?
>
I am not a Jungian but more concerned with what is/was behind his
expressions as well as the expressions of the 'three' people (i.e. Charles
Peirce, Popper, Freud, the Trinity etc) and in fact all 'X' people :-)
If you read my websites the emphasis is on a base set of EIGHT that serve as
fundamentals from which we can create more complex forms etc.
> In the March 1998 issue of _Natural History_ Gould (in his essay "The
> internal brand of the scarlet") briefly comments on Jung's views on the
> importance of the number 4. If I understand Gould, he finds Jung's
> archetypal explanations lacking, but sees fundamental importance in the
> insight of the quaternity as far as it reflects human biases towards
> dichotimization. In this case of fourness we have a dichotomy of a
> dichotomy. I don't know that Gould's weak support carries over to
> mandalas
> and the homeostatic Self though. There are the four humors and other
> interesting tidbits such as temperament (sanguine, phlegmatic,
> choleric, and
> melancholic) pointed out by Gould.
>
All covered at my sites. The distinctions are:
basic dichotomy X (whole) / NOT X
apply this to each of the elements and you move to fours:
XX, X~X, ~XX, ~X~X
apply these to themselves and you move to eights and so on... with each of
these states is a particular feeling that aids in establishing meaning...
At the general level you have objects (wholes, parts) and relationships
(static, dynamic). From those all else develops. The temperaments reflect
GENERAL feelings sourced in the object/relationships distinctions with
relationships being differentiated into those with oneself (as in total
trust in yourself vs total distrust) and others (as in total trust in others
vs total distrust in others). At the fours level the emphasis is on blending
(wholeness) and bounding (parts). Thus the total distrust is tied to
bounding, to defences etc 'them vs us'.
When we 'refine' this level we move to eights where two 'new' distinctions
emerge, those of static (bonding) and dynamic (binding) relationships.
With these comes a general dichotomy linked to concepts of contract/expand,
negative/positive, context/text. Thus a contractive blending manifests
seeking or becoming whole by drawing something in. Expansive blending is
manifest in asseerting one's own context, to spread out and so become
'whole'.. and so on..
> When I recently read the Seven Sermons to the Dead in _MDR_ I did
> think of
> your dichotomizations. Actually here are a couple URL's where this can be
> read:
>
> http://www.thelema.net/~auroraconari/seven_sermons_to_the_dead.htm
>
> http://www.luminist.org/Archives/septem.htm
>
> http://home.online.no/~noetic/7Sermons.htm
>
thanks for these...
best,
Chris.
------------------
Chris Lofting
websites:
http://www.eisa.net.au/~lofting
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond
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