Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA02800 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:11:51 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3101745B25@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: FW: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:09:32 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I think you're right here.
What's more the extent to which this can occur on a remarkably small scale
is very interesting.
I'm from the south-east of England, and generally (when I'm not putting on
my lecturer's accent- which apparently I do according to other people) I
speak what is known as 'estuary' english, a slightly toned down version of
cockney, spoken by a vast range of people living around (but not in) London
and the Thames estuary. I'm currently in my fourth year of living in
Scotland, and it's not only accents that are noticeably different, but their
are entire phrases and words I'd never heard before until living here. For
example, Scots use the word 'outwith', roughly meaning the same as outside
(so, e.g. 'this shop is closed outwith the hours of 6pm...), and they have
this phrase, which west coast and east coast scots have disagreed about when
I've asked them, regarding the time. People say things like 'I'll meet you
at the back of six', which I'm not sure whether that means just before 6
o'clock, or just after, and how long before/after it means.
These are phrases I'd never heard before, despite the proximity (there's a
little over 500 miles between my home town and where I live now). Of
course, the further back in time one goes the more pronounced this was- in
the UK I mean. In Chaucer's day, people from Norfolk (eastern england, very
roughly about 100 miles from London) were considered by Londoners as not
only northerners, but did in fact speak a distinct dialect.
Vincent
> ----------
> From: Nathan
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:43 am
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: FW: NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE
>
>
> I think that the discussion of accents goes a step further. I have
> often thought that variations in communication, such as accent and hand
> gestures, are probably the most straightforward examples of memes.
>
> The structure of the language (connotation, punctuation, rhythm,
> etc) conveys as much as the words themselves ; When I use the word
> "plane" or the word "lead" or the word "orange", which one of the objects
> do I mean. Or what is the difference between "soda" and "pop"
> It is possible, and even common for words do not have entirely
> descrete word <---> meaning mappings. There is an interesting correlation
> between language and culture.
>
> I lived in England for a about four years when I was younger, and
> although I have no accent to speak of, every time I talk to someone with
> an accent I find myself slipping into one. I have realized that I try to
> adapt my pattern of speach to theirs in order to communicate more
> effectively. (at least in my perception)
> Given that the greatest impact on accent and word use is cultural,
> we can use the features of language to tell what sort of ideosphere
> someone comes from. The artifacts of a language give information about the
> culture that uses them.
> The "taking the mickey" 'meme' for example... the expression is
> commonly used and understood in England, and I have yet to find an
> American equivilant. (Perhaps this explains some of the gullability of my
> countrymen).
>
> that's my $.02 worth
> - Nathan
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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